CROSS OF JANE DOE 2 BEGINS: Danny Masterson Trial, Day 13, afternoon break report
[This report was produced live during a court hearing with a lot going on. There will be typos. Please don't email us about typos that you find.]
After lunch session.
Continuing Jane Doe 2's testimony.
Mueller: After this incident, who were some of the first people you disclosed to what had happened.
I think the first person was my mom. And then I told my best friend Jordan Ladd. And then I think I told another one of my best friends, Rachel Smith. Those were the first people.
With regard to your mother, who soon was it that you spoke to her?
It was probably a few days or within that week or around the week.
On the phone.
What did you tell her?
I just said I had a night with Danny and she said something like, oh how did that go? And I said it was really bad. Really really bad. It was not good.
Did you give her any details?
I told her how I had, he was very rough with me and I had vomited in my mouth a couple of times, and that it didn't go well.
Did you tell her that you had been raped?
I could not tell that her that. I could not say that I had been raped to her. Not back then.
Do you remember her reaction?
She was like Oh my god. I'm so sorry honey, that doesn't sound good at all.
Jordan Ladd, a close friend at the time.
Yeah, best friend.
How soon did you talk to her?
Almost within two weeks of it happening. At two weeks or soemthing like that. Pretty soon.
In person. I think so. As I recall it.
What did you tell her?
I remember telling her that, I said something happened with Danny. She knew him too. She's never been in the church but she knew him and friends of his. I said, you know, something happened with Danny, and we had sex and he was pounding me like a jackhammer. And I told her how I had said no so many times before and during and everything. And I had said no and he wasn't listening. And it was really forceful, pounding.
How did she react.
She seemed afraid to tell me what she thought. (Obj, sustained, stricken) She was like, OK. She just did not seem like, I told her that and she was just incredulous a bit, and not saying much. And she seemed like she wanted to say more. (Obj, overruled) and she couldn't. I can't remember everything she said but she seemed incredulous, and Oh my god, wow, and was reticent about giving her opinion.
You mentioned Rachel Smith. What was your relationship.
One of my best friends.
When did you talk to her about it?
That's hard for me to know. Maybe within a year, months?
Is she a Scientologist?
She was at the time.
What did you tell her?
Pretty much the same thing I told Jordan.
What was her reaction?
I don't remember her reaction at all.
Was there another time when you happened to disclose what happened.
Yes, there were times over the years when I said (Obj, overruled). I told a couple of boyfriends, barely. I told Mariah O'Brien and Binki Shapiro one night at a dinner at Mariah's house.
Who were those people.
Mariah and I were close. She was sort of a Scienotlogist at one point, and so was Binki at one point. They started very early as well, Binki was raised in it. But when I told them they weren't really in it by that point.
What was the circumstance.
I was sitting at Mariah's dinner table and Binki was sitting there. The kids were around, not at the table. And we were finishing up. And I think Scientology came up and I had been out for a while. I had discovered things that were really upsetting about it. And I didn't realize how much they wouuld defend it.
Was there something that came up that was said that prompted you to respond and talk about what had happened to you?
I was saying something about Scientology (Obj) and they were arguing with me (Obj)
Judge Olmedo calls for a sidebar.
Mueller: After disclosing to your mom, Jordan Ladd, and Rachel Smith, at any point did you report it to the Church of Scientology?
With Danny? No.
Why is that.
(Sigh.) Because I had been raped by another member before Danny, a different member who was my boyfriend and I broke up with him. And he raped me and I went to the chaplain and I brought my ex there and I said I thought it was rape and he vehemently disagreed and the chaplain showed me policy about, that made it clear to me from what I read, that I was not allowed to think that about another member or to report it to law enforcement.
If you had not followed that and had reported to law enforcement, did you an understanding about the consequences? (Obj, overruled)
My understanding is that I would be excommunicated, lose my standing, all my community, all my friends, any family, that I would be expelled and declared a suppressive person and seen as evil.
(Judge Olmedo now gives the admonition about Scientology material, that it's for state of mind.)
Mueller: By the way, you said that prior incident happened about a year before Mr. Masterson?
I don't know. It was six months to a year before, I think.
Did that have an impact on you going to the church with regard to Masterson?
Did that have an impact with you going to law enforcement?
Do you recall when you went to law enforcement?
It was around last 2016 or early 2017, something like that?
And so that was the LAPD?
Do you recall the detective?
Det Esther Reyes.
When you were interviewed by Det Reyes, and in the course of it, you provided her information with what happened with Masterson?
Did you also provide names of any other people, potential witnesses?
Was Rachel Smith one of those names?
I don't remember.
I don't think so. I don't know that I remembered telling her those when I spoke to her.
But you do remember giving those names?
So it might have been after the initial interview?
Once this investigation got under way, were you instructed at any point to not have contact with any of the other named victims?
Who gave you that instruction?
Det Reyes. And maybe her partner. Det. Reyes.
Was that early on in the investigation or sometime later.
I believe it was, it wasn't during the interview. After that, some other time during the investigation.
When she gave you that instruction, did you initially follow it?
I don't know if I did initially, but I didn't eventually.
Why is that?
Det Reyes was doing things that were very shady and suspicious, and I felt we were in danger. She was sending me happy face emojis, she was not interviewing the witnesses. She was not professional. She called me after a 2.5-hour interview during which I aws crying, she called me the next day to ask me about the almonds I served becasue they were so delicious. I felt that was absolutely unprofessional.
So you had concerns about the investigation?
And so that was something you wanted to tell the other victims?
Yes, something was up. Something was wrong, and we were worried about corruption.
Did you share details about what happened to you with the other victims?
Not really. Possibly around the third or fourth year waiting for charges, we were trying to support each other. It's been so hard. As a way of supporting each other we had some conversations to help each other, but not sharing testimony. That's not something you do.
Do you have any concerns about testifying here today in court.
That's a yes?
Yes, sorry. Yes.
Have you experienced any harassment or intimidation or stalking like that?
For six years. Constant.
And when did it begin.
The week I reported my rape to law enforcement.
Is it still ongoing currently?
No further questions, your honor.
Defense attorney David S. Pumpkins. (No, strike that.) Philip Cohen: You have mentioned a couple of other interviews with your mom. [Cohen posts a list of interviews by date] I'll ask you to take a look at this. (Four interviews from 2003 to 2017.)
Can you please not call me [last name]?
Cohen uses her initials instead.
Cohen: I want to get the dates correct. Shortly after the incident you spoke with your mom, late in 2003?
I think so, or early, I think so, yeah.
When your interaction, sex with Masterson, you spke with her
It was not sex.
OK, after your rape went down, you spoke with your mom.
And then in 2017 you spoke with Det Reyes.
And you understand this was a sex detective assigned to sex division for about 20 years.
I didn't know her credentials, but sure.
And that is the same LAPD sex detective that you have indicated you were worried about her corruption?
In our case yes.
And it's the same LAPD detective you were suspicious of.
The same detective hurting "our" case.
The word that you use with Mr. Mueller was "our case."
I meant the case. I'm sorry if I said our.
And when you said our, you meand JD1, JD3...
...anyone raped by Danny.
You meant JD1, JD3.
And then another interview with Reyes and then to Mueller.
I guess so, yes.
When you spoke to your mom you were truthful?
When Det Reyes first got invovled in this case and you spoke with her in January 2017, do you recall her asking you specifically if you felt that Masterson was going to hurt you at any time during the rape you talked about. (Asks for a repeat.) And if you don't understand something, please ask for a repeat.
I know how it works.
How do you know?
I was at the prelim.
I wasn't there, right?
I understand how it works.
Did you believe during the Oct 2003 allegation that you've talked about it. Did you believe that Masterson was ever going to hurt you?
I did but I wasn't sure in what way. I was doing my best to keep it from becoming violent.
Do you remember telling Det Reyes that you didn't think he was going to hurt you?
I do, but I don't think I really understand what she was asking me and I didn't articulate it well.
Repeats, question, did you tell her that.
Did you tell her that you didn't believe that he was ever going to hit you?
When you made that statement were you being truthful?
From Jan 2017 until today, your belief that he was going to hurt you has changed.
No. (She wants to say more, Cohen cuts her off. Judge Olmedo says the People get a chance to go back to it for more explanation.)
Cohen: December 2016, Det Reyes told you that it was critical that you not speak to the other victims. (Obj, overruled)
I don't remember.
Would it help to refresh your recollection to look at what's called a chronological record from Det. Reyes whether or not she made that admonition? (Gives her document) My only question is whether it refreshes your recollection.
It does not refresh my recollection.
So you do not recall whether Det Reyes admonished you or told you not to speak to other witnesses.
It's that I don't know when. I'm sure she said it at same date.
When she told you not to speak to or gave you this admonition. She also told you not to speak to the press?
I don't really remember.
Did Det Reyes tell you that there would be significant damage done to credibility in this case if you were speak to the other witnesses. (Obj. Judge Olmedo gives admonition about ttruth of the matter>)
She may have, but I don't remember.
Did she tell you that your credibility would be shot if you talked to the other witnesses or the press?
I don't remember her saying that.
Do you remember her telling you about "cross-pollination." The sharing of information between two different individuals. (Obj, overruled)
Did Det Reyes tell you why she was concnered about cross-pollination?
I don't remember.
When she told you that you should not talk to others, did you agree?
I don't know.
Did you tell her that it was your rright to talk to others?
Which conversation are you talking abaout?
Did you ever tell Det Reyes it was your right to speak with whoomever you wanted to.
I did, in a conversation, yes.
And in fact after Dec 2016, you continued to talk to JD1 and JD3 regarding the case.
At any point, did you "flood" each other with information about the case.
I don't know.
Did you ever make that statement to anybody?
I don't know.
You are involved in a lawsuit against Mr. Masterson and Scientology?
Are you seeking money as part of that lawsuit?
I don't know.
You don't know?
I don't know yet.
We saw the picture from TV show that you were on. What was the name?
[Name of series]
When were you on it?
I was about 20. So around 2000.
It was an Alan Ball show.
Back when people watched regular TV?
How long did it last.
About 13 episodes.
And during that time you were going to auditions and looking for shows.
I guess now they do it by Zoom, but back then you were physically going to auditions.
You had mentioned nervousness and anxiety. If you take yourself back to 2003 or so. Your level of nervousness was more significant than it is today?
You'll have to please ask that again if you will.
Back in 2001-2003, your level of anxiety that you talked to the jury about was perhaps a little bit greater than today?
But you had that anxiety back then.
You had nervousness.
I had panic attacks and anxiety attacks back then.
And it's gotten better?
Not since the harassment started. It got better but then it's back since the harassment began.
When you went to The Well with Ilaria and Masterson....
[Judge Olmedo: People in the audience, please keep your hands in your lap.]
Cohen: When you went to The Well, you made certain observations about Masterson.
And based on those, you were attracted to him, correct?
Based on those observations I was attracted to him.?
Tha'ts what I'm asking.
I'm not undrestanding.
You found him confident.
That he had his shit together.
You found that to be attractive.
That's my question. So when you went to The Well, the takeaway was, you found some characteristics attractive to you.
By the way that was not the first time you'd met him.
But this was the first time you were in a small group with him and had one on four attention.
You had other experiences?
One other small group. We were just talking. Not drinking. At a diner.
Did you also find that he was on a TV show and making money was attractive?
Kind of. That it made him confident and had his stuff together. I was also a working actor, we were at the same agency. He had his stuff together, you know?
At the end of the night you thought this is a guy I might like to date.
Kind of. He wasn't really my type.
And if someone isn't your type, you don't want to date them or be romantic with them.
It depends, there were a lot of factors.
You indicated that Ilaria said Danny liked you.
From that night at The Well.
And your take was, maybe there's something to this.
And the something to it, you found characteristics to be attractive, as a person, and you find out he finds you attractive.
Is that right?
I don't want sure. If you disagree, tell me.
OK. When you found out that you had good feelings about him and he had good feelings about you. You thought this might be something romantic.
Then a few days later, Danny texted you.
And you describe a text exchange that was very troublling to you, correct?
I wouldn't use the word troubling yet. I just didn't understand.
You used the word commanding.
I was confused.
You said troubling.
I didn't say troubling.
I'm sorry. But those text message have stood out for you.
Do you have those text messages?
Now you indicated that Masterson is also commanding, bring a bathing suit, you're getting in the jacuzzi.
Yes. And more. Yes.
At no time have you indicated to Det Reyes or Mueller or the jury, that in any of those text message, if you do not come over here, I am going to do this to you.
No. He said if you dont' come over I'll come get you myself.
Did you tell Det Reyes that?
I either said that to her or to Mr. Mueller. I don't remember who, but I said it somebody.
I"m not sure, but one of them.
Is that why you went to his house?
No, I was confused, I thought it was his kind of flirting, and I had set parameters and I thought I could control it.
Did you go to his house because you made a decision to go?
When you say it might have been his form of flirting, it might have been his way of flirting (Obj, sustatined.) Would it be fair to sum up the conversation him saying come over, you saying no, him saying come over, you say no, him saying come over, and then you went over.
No, it would not be fair to summarize it that way.
Before you left, do you remember what you had to drink.
Not really. A little vodka or wine to take the edge off.
Did you tell Det Reyes you had probably had one or two drinks?
I told her that but I wasn't really concentrating on that, I meant that in a throwaway way. I think it was my way of saying I had just a little bit. Because I don't think I had two glasses of wine.
Did you tell Det Reyes I probably had one or two drinks?
I told her I might have had some vodka or one or two glasses of wine, but I was trying to make the point I didn't have much before I went over there.
My question is did you tell Det Reyes you had one or two glasses?
I didn't say it the way you're saying it at all.
You mentioned to DA Mueller that one night after the allegation you drunk-dialed Masterson, correct?
That means you do something maybe you regret.
I don't agree because these were such different circumstances. I was at a party and I wanted to be drunk at that party. I was with my friends. I didn't need to calm myself.
My question is, by drunk dialing are you saying it's something you regret?
I don't care that I did it.
Prior to that night, had you been to his house before?
I think I had, at some parties, gatherings, a couple of times. Two or three times, maybe two.
When you spoke to Det Reyes did you have any difficult recalling which night when these text messages had gone back and forth?
I thought I had told her it was after the night of The Well. It was the first time I had tried to remember those nights, the night of The Well and the incident. So I think some of it was coming to me when I was talking to her.
Were you comparing it to other nights when you went to his house?
I don't think so.
On your way, was it your thought that you wanted to have some wine and have it be a romantic situation with him?
I can't answer that with a yes or no, it's very decontextualized.
Did you tell Det Reyes, I wanted to have wine and it be a romantic situation.
That's not what I said.
Did you tell her you wanted to kiss him?
I told her I would be OK if that happened. If I said it that way, I meant it the way I'm saying now.
By the way did Det Reyes give you the time to say what you needed?
When you go to his house he gave you some wine.
Did you want to drink the wine?
You may have had more than one glass?
I don't know.
When you don't know, is it possible you had more than one glass?
I don't know.
Just to be clear, you had whatever drinks at your house, you have whatever drinks you have at his house.
At his house, is it fair to say you wanted to do some flirting with him?
I don't know. I guess I would have been OK with flirting.
You said he may have been flirting in text messages, then you get there, did you want to flirt with him?
I don't know.
Do you remember giving the statement that you wanted to flirt and drink wine and have romance?
I remember some of that.
Does that sound accurate?
I said it could be romantic.
And that was your desire.
It was what I was OK with.
My question is different.
I know what you were OK with Masterson doing, I'm askign what you wanted to do. You wanted to flirt with him?
I don't remember saying it that way. It's the way I am explaining it.
You were OK with flirting back and forth.
And as the night goes on you kept drinking more wine, correct?
I don't know.
Is it possible that you removed whatever articles of clothing came off before going into the jacuzzi?
I don't know. It's hard to remember that part. My memory is him starting to take them off.
Is it possible that you removed them yourself?
I suppose it's possible. I was very out of it by that point.
You used a very specific word of "groping" with Mr. Mueller.
I don't remember using that word.
Did you use that word with Det Reyes?
I don't remember.
Did you use it with Mr. Mueller?
I don't remember.
Following the jacuzzi you and Masterson went upstairs. I think DA Mueller had shown you the stairs. (Shows photo)
And upstairs is where the shower is.
And the bedroom.
With respect to going upstairs, fair to say you never told Det Reyes that Masterson had carried you or forced you to go upstairs.
I don't remember what I said to her about that.
Fair to say you never told Mr. Mueller that he had forced you.
I don't think I said that.
You went upstairs on your own.
He ordered me to.
GO UPSTAIRS NOW TO MY BATHROOM... or MY BEDROOM.
Kind of like in these text messages.
What ever his verbiage was, you then went upstairs voluntarily.
I obeyed him.
The shower, the two of you went inside the shower.
I don't know. I know we both ended up in there.
Did you give a previous statement that you were standing outside the shower kissing and then we -- WE -- went into the shower.
I don't remember giving that statement. But it's not quite I, maybe, I don't know. We went into the shower.
Might it have been your idea to go in the shower?
As I sit her now, no.
What about when you were sitting with Mr. Mueller in May 2017, did you tell him that it's possible it was your idea to go into the shower.
I was trying to remember what was going on in that moment.
So when you were trying to remember in 2017, it might have been your idea.
Not in a strong way, no. What I remember was him say, go in the shower, get in the shower.
Did you tell Mueller that you did not remember if it was his idea or mine?
I might have said that.
And if you said that, would it be truthful?
I would have been trying to remember.
By the way, is your memory today better than it was in 2017 when you spoke to Det Reyes and Det Mueller.
I don't know.
Your memory is better now than then?
Maybe. Having to think about it for six years, more pieces of it come back.
In the shower, you two are fooling around.
He was kissing me in the shower.
The two of you were fooling around.
I kissed him back.
And there was digital penetration in the shower.
I remember that, yes.
Then you indicated suddenly his penis was inside you.
And your response to that was, what are you doing, you don't have a condom (Obj, Misstates the testimony.) Did you tell Reyes, what are you doing, you don't have a condom.
That's not quite everything I said.
Amongst the things you said was, no condom?
It was part of my shock.
As you were in the shower, your immediate response was you don't have a condom.
It was not the first thing out of my mouth.
Did you say it?
At a certain point.
He didn't carry you into the bedroom.
He ordered me.
Did you tell Det Reyes he asked me to go?
I don't know how I phrased it.
Did you tell her that he asked me to go?
I don't know if I phrased it that way.
Would it help to refresh your recollection -- sorry, it was in a conversation with Mr. Mueller -- with respect to going from the shower to the bedroom?
You can show me.
(Gives her a document.) Does that help?
Did you indicate to Deputy DA Mueller, he asked me to go into his room.
He told me to go in there, if he said he asked, it was the same thing.
My question is very specific. In looking at the transcript, is what you told Mueller in 2017, he asked me to go in his room?
Sure, yes, it's still meaningless to me. I know what I meant.
So it's your statement that you meant somethign differnt than what you told Mr. Mueller?
No, it was just a different way of saying the same thing.
Are you saying asking you and commanding you are the same thing?
He waas commanding me throughout the night, he was ordering me around and I was obeying him. If I said "asking" at some point it's just a word. I was doing what he told me to do.
When you spoke with Det Mueller, you weren't out of it. You were cognizant of what you were saying.
When you then were on Msterson's bed, the two of you continue to fool around in various ways.
And would it be fair to say you were getting into the fooling around?
I would say that it's not quite fair to say even if I had said that. It was aout managing it for me. It was getting heavy is what I said.
Did you tell Det Reyes during the interview that on the bed you were "getting into it" with him.
I did not articulate myself, I meant that it was getting heavy, it was haevy making out and i was pretty out of it and it was getting intense.
Can we at least agree that whwat you indicated to Det Reyes was that you were getting into it with him.
What I'm saying is I remember saying that I heard that part and I did not articulate that well. What I was trying to indicate was it was getting intense and heavy and I was trying to manage it. That's what I meant.
Cohen: Good time to break, your honor?
Judge Olmedo agrees. Sends the jury out.
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WTF was the pumpkin BS from Cohen? It makes my skin crawl. As for this witness, just by reading it she seems kind of scattered. I do understand that she was nervous when she spoke to the detective and that there was some miscommunication there. There were times it seemed Cohen was badgering the witness. However, this was probably Cohen's best showing thus far. That is NOT saying a lot for such "high powered" legal representation. I'm looking forward to re-direct.
This cross reads like something from a different decade. Just because she kissed him, or was "into it" (though I'm not sure she was), or said yes (or didn't say no) at one point doesn't mean that she consented to intercourse. Just because she had a couple of drinks doesn't mean she consented.