After lunch session, Day 7 (Day 3 of testimony), Danny Masterson retrial
Jury coming in.
Cross-examination of Jane Doe 3 continues
Shawn Holley: Started before the break about the FBI. You had spoken with a special agent Welch. That conversation was on the telephone.
Jane Doe 3: Yes, ma'am.
And your concerns were 1. stalking by the church and 2. what Danny had done to you.
Yes, ma'am.
Anything else you remember discussing with her?
Honestly I don't really remember.
Would looking at the crime report refresh your recollection?
Sure.
(Asks her to look at a report.)
I've never seen this before.
(She's asked to read it to see if it refreshes her recollection. An FBI report from Jan 2017)
(While we have a minute as she reads: Masterson section is Bijou Phillips, Jordan, Christopher, Will, and Carol Masterson. Family friend Graham Bruwer. Cohen's PR person. Three more family friends.)
Does that refresh your recollection.
I guess so.
As to when it happened?
So it was January 20, 2017.
And the day you met with Det Reyes and Viegas in Austin was Jan 17, 2017.
Yes.
So you contacted the FBI three days after you met with them?
Yes, but I filed in December and I had talked to her in December.
But your first in-depth meeting with her was Jan 17, 2017, a 3-hour meeting.
I don't remember how long.
Now you did not, at that time, on Jan 20, have any reason to distrust Det Reyes, did you?
There was distrust generally, with how Scientologists look at law enforcement
So it wasn't anything she had done, just your distrust of the LAPD?
Well, she scared me at first. She and her partner were talking about when they checked into their hotel their curling iron disappeared, and they said, ah, Scientology! And I started feeling panicky because it sort of confirmed my fears.
So when they first met you they talked about this curling iron disappearing from a bed and that confirmed your fears of talking to law enforcement?
No, it confirmed my fears of Scientology.
You talk of two incidents with Danny in the FBI report?
Yes
The post-Paris and the Dec 2001 unconscious sodomy
Yes
And those are the only two you mentioned.
Yes.
Is there mention of stalking and harassment?
I don't think so.
So is it fair that you contacted the FBI 3 days after meeting Reyes was not for stalking and harassment, but that you had a mistrust of the LAPD and wanted to go to a different agency?
Well, when I reported to the Austin PD, things started happening.'
So are you saying three days...
Shortly after I reported to Austin PD, things started happening. And I wanted to reach out to the FBI to file a report. I don't know what to do, I just thought, it's not because I wanted to replace LAPD, I just wanted to place something on the record.
But in fact, you didn't say anything about whatever was happening to the FBI, correct?
One of my longtime friends I've known since I was 14, I was telling her what was happening, and she told me her godmother's daughter was an FBI agent, and they put me in touch with them.
With agent Welch?
Yes
But my question is when you spoke to her you didn't mention any of these things that were happening.
I don't know, it's just that when you starts asking these things I start sounding crazy.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. Are you saying when you talked to her you went off on a tangent about what Danny did?
I don't really remember that conversation.
Would you say there's a great deal of detail in the report about your relationship about Danny, correct?
There's some details.
You say you first met Danny at a party in 1995?
It was 1996.
And you started dating and lived with him, it says that?
I don't remember the conversation but clearly I said it.
Do you remember telling her that your relationship with your parents was distressing?
I don't remember telling her that.
But you do remember telling her about the post-Paris and Dec 2001 incidents.
It's in there.
Having spoken with FBI agent Welch on January 20, in February that you sent an email to Capt Beck complaining about the LAPD investigation.
I think I sent the letter in February.
So this was just a month after first meeting with Det. Reyes.
I don't know if it was February but I'll look at something.
You sent two emails or letters, communications, to Chief Beck complaining about the investigation.
I wrote two letters, yes.
Did you email them or mail them.
I emailed the first one. I don't remember.
(Holley enters two typewritten letters to Beck.) Are these the two letters you wrote to Chief Beck?
I think yes, I think so.
One of them is missing a date, correct? Does it appear to you that the one without a date preceded the one dated March?
Yes.
In February and again in March, did you write the chief complaining about Reyes.
I don't know. I guess so.
I want to turn to your testimony about the November 2001 incident. You said some things about it this time you didn't say before.
I opened up about it more.
Are there details you have provided for the first time?
Yes.
Thank you. Yesterday you described a vicious 30-minute violent rape, right?
Yes.
You testified yesterday that you woke up with Danny on top of you.
Yes, ma'am.
So you had been asleep.
Yes.
And when you woke up he was on top of you.
Yes.
(Judge Olmedo clarifies, Nov 2001)
And you were on your back.
Yes, because he was on top.
And so when you woke up you were on your back. Were your legs open?
Yes.
Was he using his hand to put his hand inside you or was he already inside?
He was putting himself inside.
Did he have to use one of his hands? (Obj, sustained, rephrase) Would you agree that when a man is putting his penis into a woman's vagina he has to use his hand (Obj, sustained) In this instance, do you remember him using his hand to put himself inside you?
I don't remember that part.
And how long when you woke up was he putting himself inside you?
It was fast.
Like a second?
I couldn't say.
Seconds?
Yes, ma'am.
You immediately told him to stop, right?
I did.
And you immediately told him to get off you?
I told him to stop.
And you told him I don't want this.
Yes.
Loudly?
Yes, not at that beginning.
Within the seconds for him to get inside you, he was then thrusting?
Yes.
And he was thrusting throughout the 30-minute ordeal?
I don't know if it was constant thrusting.
You said your body was not prepared. Did you mean no lubrication?
Right.
And that caused your vagina to hurt?
Yes.
And your cervix to hurt.
Yes, it was hurting.
And at that point you were using your hands to push him?
At what point.
Well, you tell me, during this 30 minutes, at what point were you using your hands to push his chest?
I don't remember, it was during the beginning
Do you remember where his hands were then?
No.
And when you were pushing, was he continuing to thrust?
Yes.
And was it then he put all his body weight down on you?
At what point?
That's a good point, you tell me, when did he do that? After 10 minutes, 20 minutes?
I don't know the time, but I was telling him to get off of me and I didn't want sex, and he put his body weight down on me.
Well when you said he was putting his body weight down on you, that he was not supporting himself with his arms and put his dead weight on you?
He did that a lot.
Am I right saying that, he wasn't supporting himself with his hands or arms?
I just know what it felt like, I don't know where his hands were.
You talked about his face just above your face.
Yeah.
That's when you saw the dead eyes.
I saw it the whole time.
The whole 30 minutes.
Yes, ma'am.
Can you remember how it was, the dead weight was on you, but the face was suspended above you? Can you reconcile those things in your mind?
You mean, should I try to figure it out?
No, I'm saying if you have a memory of it, because I'm trying to understand how the dead weight can be down on you and the head suspended above you.
I want to answer honestly, I can't tell you where his hands were in that moment. But I could guess.
Don't guess.
While his dead weight was on you, was he thrusting?
I believe so.
And all the while you're yelling no, get off me.
I really started yelling toward the end?
Would that be 20 minutes in, when you started yelling?
I don't know when you ask the time. I don't know how to answer, honestly.
Now you described a time where you tried to wriggle away, but you couldn't because of his body weight.
I don't know if it was his body weight, but I remember trying to wriggle out my lower body.
And then he used his left hand to hold your right hand back and his right hand to hold your left hand back.
He used his forearms to hold back both of my arms.
(They discuss whether her arms were held like a goalpost. Judge Olmedo says she's a baseball fan, not a football fan, but it is something like a goalpost. She describes it for the court reporter. JD3 says her arms were more bent, not like a goalpost.)
Holley: And while he was doing that, he was still thrusting his penis into your vagina.
yes.
And his face was above your face?
yes, he was above me.
And that's when you felt trapped.
Yes.
And this was near the end, like 30 minutes?
I don't know the time.
And then you testified, after this 30 minutes, you made the conscious decision to pull his hair.
Yes.
And you did this because of the no-touch-hair rule.
Yes.
And you managed to get your left hand free, even though his body weight was on you and his arms had yours pinned down.
(She describes getting her hand out.)
And that's when you pulled her hair.
I don't have a full memory of that whole incident. I just remember what I remember.
And then when you pulled his hair, he hit you with a closed fist?
He hit me, yes ma'am.
With a closed fist?
It was like that (shows mostly closed hand). It wasn't a punch.
And you're yelling and screaming?
No, when he hit me I was stunned at first.
And there was no one else home?
I can't remember. i feel like I remember wanting to yell out for Max, but I feel he was away.
And that's when Danny got up and spit a giant loogie on your face.
After he hit me, my next memory is he was standing over me on my right side.
Do you remember saying I could remember it like it was yesterday.
Yes.
And that's a painful memory for you?
Yes.
Do you remember being interviewed by Mr. Mueller and Det Vargas in 2017?
yes.
That was your first time meeting Mr. Mueller.
Yes.
First time meeting Det Vargas?
I had spoken to him on the phone, but first time meeting him.
You understood that Mr. Mueller was the DA who would prosecute the case.
I believe so. I didn't really understand how this all works, but I think I understood that.
You knew he was a prosecutor, so you knew he was very important.
well he's very important to a lot of people, yes.
During the time that Mr. Mueller and Det Vargas spoke to you on face time, that he was fair?
I think he was very fair.
And he let you give full answers?
I believe so.
And you understood the importance of being honest in the conversation?
Yes.
and you always have been
Yes.
And you understand the importance of being thorough?
I did not. I wish I understood that in the very first interview that you give with a detective or a prosecutor that you have to make sure you're very literal and that you have to give all the details, because someone like you is going to challenge me on that. I understand, but I did not know that. I don't like to talk about things, and it takes me a long time to speak about things, and I was doing the best I can and I was being honest.
When the various detectives and or Mr. Mueller were questioning you, did you understand the importance of correcting them if they said something that was inaccurate.
Can you give me a specific?
Well, I understood your previous answer that you didn't understand the importance of providing a thorough response of questions pout to you, right?
(Judge Olmedo asks her to clarify her question.)
Holley: Did you understand when you were being interviewed by any of the authorities in this matter did you understand that if one of them said something inaccurate, you should correct that?
I can only speak on my experience, I believe d that what I was being asked, that Det Reyes was understanding, and I just let them guide me, because I did not know how this all worked.
But you did understand the importance of being honest
Yes.
Do you remember in the June 2017 interview with Mr. Mueller, he asked you about the Nov incident, "I can't really give you much about that night because I don't fully remember." Is it your testimony now, in 2023, that you remember things that you didn't in 2017.
No, I don't remember everything about it.
Would you agree that the information you gave in 2017 with Mr. Mueller did not contain a great deal of what you said yesterday?
I was answering his questions. It was our first time we spoke. I didn't know that I was supposed to give him everything, like all, I didn't know. I was just answering his questions.
Do you remember when you were being interviewed by Mr. Mueller in June 2017 not that you were sleeping and Danny woke you up, but that you were trying to go to sleep?
That's the same thing to me. I was trying to sleep. I’m Southern, we say trying to means doing it. I didn't know I had to be so correct and literal in my words. I know that now.
So it's the same thing to you to say you were trying to go to sleep and you were sleeping?
Yes, I would say that word. Example, if I'm grocery shopping and you called me and asked, I'd say I'm trying to grocery shop. Does that make sense?
In that context, sure. Do you remember Mr. Mueller asking you, he rolled over and got on top of you?
I don't know how you roll over someone to get on top of someone.
So it would be inaccurate to say that he rolled over to get on top of you.
I don't know what that means, I'm sorry.
Would seeing the transcript of that help you?
I don't know because I don't know how you roll over on top of someone.
Whether or not you understand that, you would agree that is different than waking up with someone on top of you?
Yes.
Do you remember Mr. Mueller asking you what you did to get him off of you, before you pulled his hair. You said, I can't remember exactly what I did? Do you remember that exchange.
I don't remember that exchange, but I don't remember what I did just before. There are parts I don't remember.
But there are parts you do remember.
Absolutely.
But you didn't provide those details to him. You told him you didn't remember exactly.
The first interview? I don't remember saying that.
Would looking at a transcript refresh your memory?
I don't have a memory of it so looking at a transcript wouldn't help.
In that June interview, you didn't say anything about yelling did you?
I thought I did. I'm not sure.
And in that interview with Mueller and Vargas you never said anything about having your arms pinned above your head.
Initial interview, I don't think so. he was asking about other times and I was just telling him generally what it was like.
When you say it was like, do you mean the November 2001 incident or what it was like to be with him in general.
Well, both. I gave details referring to that incident.
You didn't tell Mueller that you felt trapped>
I told him that, yes.
Did you tell him that in the June interview?
Probably not. I feel like I wasn't volunteering much, I was just answering the questions he was asking.
I want to ask you about a particular exchange. (Asks Olmedo about how to present the transcript.)
Judge Olmedo decides to break for the afternoon early, and will answer that question for Holley.
Jury out.
Judge is saying some things to Holley about the best to way to deal with refreshing the memory that is less time-consuming. (And we're thinking of the way Cohen kept refreshing with transcripts.) Judge Olmedo asks the two sides to talk about how to deal with transcripts.
Cohen asks again about an admonition regarding harassment and also about one detective replacing another.
We're on a short break.
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JD3 did a great job on the stand today. She’s one very strong woman.
I'd be curious how Tricia Vessey would do on stand now that they can talk more about the CoS, if that would help her case at all. I understand she doesn't want to and I totally respect that.