English councillors squirm over question about Scientology abuses
Yesterday, Alexander “Apostate Alex” Barnes-Ross attended (virtually) a meeting of the East Grinstead Town Council, the city where Scientology maintains its UK Headquarters at Saint Hill. Alex spoke up during the period for public questions, and then sent us this account of how it all went down…
Scientology’s UK OSA head Graeme Wilson was flanked on all sides by SPs. He attended the council meeting via Zoom along with myself and two others who were at the IAS protest – and we were the only members of the public who were present for the entire meeting. He did not turn his camera on, and stayed silent during the ‘public comments/questions’ portion of the meeting.
The meeting was hosted by Mayor Frazer Visser, who is currently under fire for attending a number of Scientology events at Saint Hill and has yet to respond to the open letter I sent him asking why he chooses to support the group.
The first item on the agenda was public questions and I was first up: Here’s what I asked:
“I was locked in a room as a teenager by the Church of Scientology, and I’m aware of dozens of other people who have experienced abuse at their Saint Hill headquarters. What are the Council doing to protect the public, and especially children, from abuse and how do Councillors justify attending events hosted by Scientology in light of these allegations?”
Mayor Visser seemed flustered. The Council Leader, Helen Farren, held her hand to her forehead, clearly uncomfortable. Others looked down at their papers, clearly hoping to avoid making awkward eye contact with others. A handful of Councillors, notably the more recently elected, seemed intrigued and engaged, leaning forwards and focusing intently on the Mayor, eagerly awaiting his response.
“Thank you very much for your questions and thank you for coming on… Um….
Really in public question time we really only accept one question… um… there were two very, very different quite in-depth questions there… which one would you really like us to focus on there?”
I responded “Let’s go with the first one then… what are the council doing to protect children from abuse…” Cllr Visser shuffles in his chair and adjusts his Mayoral chain, visibly uncomfortable “…at Saint Hill in light of these allegations.”
He paused, shuffled his papers and fumbled his words “I think that’s quite a complex question to answer without any pre-warning to that question… as any allegations towards that would need to be legally referenced for us to make a response to.. Town Clerk, would you like to….”
A poor response from Mr. Visser, as he is clearly very aware of the pressure he is under and the questions I would most likely to ask. He had plenty of pre-warning, and was clearly trying to avoid giving an answer that could lead him into hot water. I find it particularly amusing he deflected to the Town Clerk for an answer — clearly an excellent demonstration of his great leadership skills.
The Town Clerk responded by diverting responsibility to another government department. “We are not the public authority that deals with the protection of adults or children… obviously that comes under the County Council. However, if the Town Council were aware and had concerns of that nature, then obviously the Town Council would report those as appropriate to the appropriate authority… I don’t know there’s much else I could really say, Chair,” she said, shaking her head and raising her hands in surrender.
The Mayor, looking directly ahead and focusing his eyes on the table in front of him, desperately trying to avoid eye contact with his fellow Councillors responded:
“I think you’re right.. the town council isn’t the right authority for that, but if you do have any questions or concerns then you can raise them through the official channels, the Clerk and then we can take that up with West Sussex, who can take that up on your behalf if you wanted to.”
My question then is why haven’t they already done that, considering the Town Council is well aware of the many stories of abuse at Saint Hill, including my own, when I shared my ‘Behind Closed Doors’ video series with them in November?
Austen, one of the protestors who also attended the Council meeting also raised a question, asking about the integrity of public office in light of Scientology’s close relationship with the Mayor and the District Council’s response to Saint Hill’s Premises Licence breach ahead of the IAS event.
The Mayor again deflected the question, claiming the Council already have a “robust system in place” to protect local government from undue influence.
One of the main topics on the agenda was the Council’s Code of Conduct and policy on accepting gifts and hospitality. It was discussed at length and an adjustment was proposed to the current policy, which only demonstrated the Council’s discord on their own Code of Conduct.
The debate was over how and when Councillors should report gifts and hospitality received — and the proposal was to lower the value at which declarations must be made from £50 to £25. There was a lot of confusion in the room over the official policy currently in place and what is considered ‘best practice’.
It was rather amusing that this item was on the agenda as a result of my recent FOI requests, articles on Scientology Business and Code of Conduct complaint regarding the Mayor’s association with Saint Hill.
After the meeting, I spoke to Austen who summed the meeting up perfectly:
“It became apparent very quickly that this meeting would be an exercise in describing the fall-out of the complaint against Cllr Visser, in relation to the Church of Scientology, without actually ever saying the word ‘Scientology’ or mentioning the events at Saint Hill. The Mayor gave generic responses to both mine and Alex’s questions, stating that there are transparent processes and procedures in place regarding safeguarding children against abuse and the recording of gifts/hospitality. However, the latter stages of the meeting revealed the grey areas and misunderstanding of the Councillor’s code of conduct re: gifts and hospitality. The motion discussed essentially covers the council’s back regarding the recording of gifts, which seemingly only ever come from one organisation anyway, the Church of Scientology.”
The full meeting was recorded and will be available on my YouTube Channel, and in several days it will likely also be uploaded to East Grinstead Town Council’s Channel.
— Alexander Barnes-Ross
Chris Shelton is Straight Up and Vertical
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Alex is deftly walking the line he must take to get this taken seriously by the council. It's important to close off those cracks avoidant people use to evade answering difficult questions. There will be further council meetings. Keep up the great work Alex!
"Mayor Visser seemed flustered." Well done Alex! Being 'flustered' is the least thing that should happen to all of the $cieno 'fellow travelers'. Your attempt to hold the local politicians responsible for their implied support of $cientology was not in vain.
I want to say that your question reminds me of an episode of 'Are You Being Served', but your question was much too serious to be made funny. And dealing with $cientology is much like an episode of 'Dad's Army' and 'V' mashed together. Please keep up the doxing and public calls, it is at least a load of Lutz and will often remind the recipient that they are being watched and their connection to $cientology reflects poorly on them.