Late morning session, Day 15 (Day 11 of testimony) Danny Masterson retrial
PEOPLE CALL [JANE DOE 2's mother]
Deputy DA Anson: How are you feeling today?
JD2 mom: I'm OK. I have a heart condition, so I get a little winded when I talk at times, and my voice gets halting, but I'll do my best.
(Shows photo of JD2) Who is in that photo?
My daughter.
Back in 2003, how would you describe your relationship with her?
Close. In close contact. Sharing things. Talking a lot. Being there for her as a support.
Is it fair to say that you love your daughter very much?
Yes, absolutely.
In 2003 did you have a conversation with her about something upsetting to her related to Daniel Masterson?
Yes, I did.
Did you know who he was?
I did. (Identifies him for the record.)
In 2003, after this conversation, had the two of you, to now, many conversations about what she told you in that phone conversation?
A number of conversations over the years, yes.
Is it difficult for you to talk about this?
It is.
Are you a member of the Church of Scientology?
No.
Were you?
Yes.
Which years.
I'm 75. I started when I was about 18 and there was no specific exit date. I just sort of faded out. Became more and more disillusioned and faded out.
Back when JD2 was in high school, did you encourage her to maybe look into Scientology to help with some anxiety?
I did. Even though I wasn't active myself, I did.
And did she start going to or practicing Scientology?
Yes.
Going back to the conversation you had in 2003, had she had a conversation before that about going out with Masterson?
Not that I remember very clearly. Not that it didn't happen, l but I don't have a clear memory of it.
Before the conversation, did you have the impression that she wanted to go out with him?
Vague. It's hard to remember details, 2003 is a long time ago. To be honest we didn't really talk about Mr. Masterson all that much. I seem to remember that he came up and they were part of this group of people they were both friendly with. But I don't remember a lot of specifics. It's possible.
So it's possible she mentioned something about looking forward to seeing him.
Yes.
Now, let's focus on this conversation. Where did it take place?
It was on the phone.
How close in time did it happen from the incident?
Maybe a day or two.
In that conversation, how did she sound?
Upset. Angry. Hurt. A mixture of those emotions.
And what did she disclose to you happened between her and Masterson?
I remember a few things very clearly. But only a few where I could say it's almost word for word, close. What I remember was he was coming at her from behind, very forcefully, like a jackhammer, and that it hurt. and she asked him to stop but he didn't, and she threw up in her mouth.
Did she use the word rape?
No, she did not.
Did you have a reaction?
I felt very shocked, upset for her.
Did you tell her she had been raped?
No, because I had a very old-fashioned idea of rape that involved weapons and fearing for your life. and I know now that it's about consent. But back then, in 2003, I thought it was like, you know, someone jumping out of the bushes with a ski mask on and holding you down.
How long did this conversation go on?
About a half hour, maybe more? Hard to say.
You knew your daughter well.
Yes.
When she was describing what happened, was it easy for her?
Not easy, but she was going to talk about it. She wanted to talk about it. She needed to get it off her chest. But it wasn't like a walk in the park or anything like that.
In 2020, did you speak to a Det Vargas?
I thought that was in 2017, that I spoke to Det Vargas.
When you spoke to him, had you spoken to JD2 the night before?
Yes.
And that conversation you and JD2 had the night before, what was it?
I was told that I was going to receive a call and that I was going to be interviewed by a detective, (and there was another thing we talked about.)
Did that other thing entail her telling you what to say to the detective?
I remember it was about a conversation we had in 2011, and that the detective had actually mentioned it, and it came up again the night before I talked with him.
When JD2 asked you if you remembered conversation in 2011, did you tell her you didn't remember it.
I remembered it somewhat, I remember it better now.
Did you tell Det Vargas that you didn't remember the 2011 conversation?
I did. I was a little confused at that point. I read it in the transcript, and I didn't understand it.
What were you confused about?
It seemed to me I said initially I remember this conversation and parts of it, but then after I disclosed it that I don't remember that.
In speaking to Det Vargas, were you clear to him that you and JD2 had several conversations relating to what happened?
Yes I was.
Did you tell him that over the years you had gotten some more details maybe?
Yes.
With him, were you careful to describe only what you remember hearing in that initial conversation in 2003?
Yes, I was.
And those were the same details you shared today?
Yes.
Since JD2 testified, have you talked to her?
Yes, just in general terms.
How often do you talk?
Quite often. But since I've been ill she's been very carful with me. We're just talking about a relatively short period of time, and especially in the last month and a half, I had surgery and I have acute heart failure, and I haven't been in a great emotional place, and she respects that, so we're not talking as much.
Did she tell you what she testified to?
No.
Did you tell her what you were going to testify to?
No.
No further questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
Cohen: You love your daughter very much.
Yes.
And you seem to be very close friends.
Yes, we are.
And you talk about what's goin on in your lives.
Usually.
JD2 actually opens up to you about things.
Yes, she does. Not always, on everything. But yes.
Fairly say you'd like to help your daughter.
Yes.
You're aware that she has a civil lawsuit against Masterson and Scientology?
I've heard about that.
Fair to say you'd like to help any way you could.
That would always be the case, no matter what. Yeah. That I would want to help her if I could, in my power.
You've been asked about a conversation that took place 20 years ago.
Yes.
Fair to say that it's difficult to remember the specifics?
It is difficult conversations that took place 20 years ago, in all the various details.
Since that conversation, there have been a number of times that you've spoken with JD2 over the years, about Mr. Masterson.
Yes.
There's been information you've heard over the years about her and Masterson.
Yes.
And at times it has been difficult for you to separate out what JD2 said 20 years ago versus what you've heard more recently.
The original story has not changed. but there have been some, perhaps, details added. Sometimes if you're talking about something over a period years everything sort of blurs together at a certain point. I mean that does happen. So you might get a little confused and not remember what was said when, so many years have passed.
So not remember what was said in 2003 and what was said in 2017.
I think something that is, it depends, because what is said in 2017 reflects what happened in 2003 it could be confusing. But other than that, I think you can keep track when there are so many years in between.
You remember speaking with Det Vargas.
Yes.
You were as accurate as you could be.
Yes.
Do you remember telling hm that there has been so much talk recently it's hard to separate what I've heard recently from what actually happened.
That was actually poorly said.
By me?
By me.
Did you say that to him?
I did.
And now you're saying it was poorly said by you?
Yes.
Did you ever tell him what I said to you about hard to separate, I stated that poorly?
I did not say that to him.
You testified in November.
Yes.
At any time prior to your testimony, did you and JD2 speak at all about the substance of your testimony?
No.
If you recall, at the prior proceeding, JD2 had testified before you?
Correct.
After she testified but before you did, did you provide a typewritten paper t Ms. Anson about your testimony?
Yes.
Do you remember what it was entitled?
"Few things to flush out."
Right.
And then four things to flush out.
OK.
Do you recall that?
I remember one of the things. I am not so sure about the other thing.
Did you provide that document for Ms. Anson on your own?
Yes, I prepared it on my own.
Did JD2 talk to you about it?
No.
When JD2 spoke to you back in 2003, that conversation was about 30 minutes?
About.
And you felt that your daughter was opening up to you.
Yes.
Did she indicate to you that she had stayed at Danny's house, the evening of the assault she was telling you about, did she indicate she stayed there until about 6 in the morning.
I don't remember the exact time, but it was a long evening. I don't remember, was it 5 or 6 or 4. But she was there quite a while.
Is your memory today about your call better than in November.
The same.
Better than when you spoke to Det Vargas.
Um, the same.
Do you remember that you told Det Vargas that she said to you that she stayed until six in the morning?
I don't remember
Did JD2 tell you that when she left Danny's house she thought they were goin to start dating
No.
Did she tell you that she thought Danny was going to fall in love with her?
No.
Did she tell you that she expected him to call her?
No.
Did she tell you that she reached out to him and said I really liked you and I thought you really liked me.
No.
Prior to her seeing Danny, did JD2 tell you that she was excited to go out with him?
I read that in a transcript. I don't actually us having that sort of conversation prior to her seeing him. I said that and I corrected to the detective, and said "looking forward" because "excited" was a bridge too far.
Which transcript did you review?
I reviewed the transcript of the prior proceedings, and the interview with Vargas.
Who gave you transcript of the Vargas interview?
Ms. Anson.
When?
In March.
And then you reviewed a transcript from a prior proceeding as well?
I heard a tape of my interview with Det. Vargas prior to the October-November proceeding. I heard a tape. I didn’t see a written transcript.
When did you listen to the tape?
Probably a day or two before I testified in November.
Did JD2 ever tell you in 2003 that she believed she had been drugged?
She told me there was alcohol involved, that it had been pressed on her, and that she felt out of it.
Did she ever say she believed she had been drugged.
She didn't say those words.
During your phone call with JD2, did she tell you that Danny had treated her like "a piece of meat."
She didn't say that, that was my own conclusion based on what she told me.
So your takeaway that she was unhappy about the way that Danny had treated her.
Correct.
And your takeaway was he had treated her like a piece of meat.
Correct.
And that was caused by Danny refusing to date.
No. I was saying she was treated like a piece of meat because, I mean they didn't know each other well. That there was some level of trust there and he treated her like a piece of meat.
Did you tell that Det Vargas?
No, I only said the piece of meat.
Did she tell you that she and Danny had gone out a number of times.
No.
Your takraway in 2003 was that it was not rape becaude of your concept of what rape is, fair to say?
Fair to say.
Approximately when did you leave the Church of Scientology?
It was over 25 years ago.
When yo spoke with JD2 in 2003, she was still in.
I don't know if she was terribly active, but she still considered herself a Scientologist, philosophically speaking.
If your takeaway was that she had been raped, fair to say that you would have told her to report it to the police?
Yes.
Despite your background in Scientology and her background in Scientology?
I say yes, because that's where I would be coming from now. But I don't know, if the fact that her being in sci would have, if I would have thought about that. Well, maybe you shoud go to the ethics office first -- I don't know.
When you spoke to Det Vargas and descried the phone call with JD2, did you tell him that if you had put it together as rape, you would have said to her, well, we should report it. Did you tell him that?
I believe I did. But again, I hadn't really thought out in great detail.
How did the "Few things to flush out" get to Ms. Anson?
I believe I emailed it.
WAs it in an email?
I think so. Can't swear to that. But I can't imagine that I texted it. So I'm guessing.
Do you have a scanner?
My husband has one.
No further questions.
REDIRECT
Anson: Before the prior proceeding did you ask to listen to a recorded interview with Vargas?
I did.
Did you listen over the phone?
I believe I listened to it on the phone, you sent it to me.
After you listened to it, did you find things to clarify?
I'm not sure where that fell in my thinking, if that makes sense.
Had you heard that recording before?
When you turned in those clarifications, did you hand them to me?
No, I think I emailed them.
Now were those clarifications that JD2 told you to write.
No, not at all.
Did you and her have a conversation about what to put in it?
No.
You said you think about things a lot
Too much.
So those corrections are based on your own thoughts.
Yes.
Is the fact that there's a civil suit affecting your testimony?
No.
Has it ever affected your testimony to law enforcement?
No.
You said you did a poor job telling Vargas how you kept track of details from 2003.
I wasn't taking notes, I was not marking things down on a calendar or keeping a timeline, so I said I did a poor job. But it didn't occur to me to do a good job, keeping track of details -- didn't occur to me.
(Asks her about reference to the ethics office.)
It would be hard for me to explain what that's all about. But when people have complaints or a problem with another member, they are going to mediate the problem and tell you what to do about it.
And that's how you would handle it as a Scientologist.
Yeah, and even thought I had stopped being an active member, and there were things I didn't like, I still had some agreement. I wasn't completely anti- or, in my head I thought I was somewhat... OK, things that I didn't like about the organization, but I did like some things.
In 2003?
Yes. That's changed completely since then.
AS to the piece of meat statement. Did you think that because he didn't call her?
No.
What was like a piece of meat.
How he handled her. That he hurt, like she wasn't even a real person.
Nothing further.
Judge excuses JD2's mother.
PEOPLE CALLS OFFICER SCHLAGEL
Judge says we'll start with Schlagel at 1:30, after lunch.
UPDATE TO THIS MORNING’S CONTROVERSY: Judge Olmedo had earlier discussed issuing an order to show cause regarding the leak of prosecution discovery material to Scientology’s attorneys. But later she spoke about an evidentiary hearing and asked the prosecutors if they would be subpoenaing Masterson’s defense attorneys.
We believe such a hearing would occur after the trial, but we get the feeling that Judge Olmedo and the DA’s office are determined to find out how Scientology got its hands on the discovery in a criminal case.
Um, wow.
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Again, HOLY MOTHER FORKING SHIRT BALLS!
Judge Olmedo needs to really be thinking like this is a big gang/cartel/mafia trial cuz it is.