Early afternoon session, Day 8 (Day 4 of testimony), Danny Masterson retrial
Looks like our next witness is going to be Dr. Barbara Ziv, the expert on rape trauma.
Spanky Taylor and Tory Christman have come by to watch the show.
Mueller: Would you please begin with what your occupation is?
Ziv: Psychiatrist with specialty in forensic psychiatry.
Can you explain that?
Forensic psychiatry is the examination of people in a criminal setting. I'm typically asked to address a specific question. I'm not there to provide treatment or to advocate for any position. Sometimes in the course of my work I'm asked to provide what we call "blind testimony" about counterintuitive victim behaviors. Every state in the union allow testimony about victims of sexual assault because people have preconceived notions about what victims do that are not true.
How long have you been doing this?
Since at least the past 25 years or so.
Is there an area you focus on.
On a special board in Pennsylvania, and focuses on perpetrators of sexual assault. Also has a clinical practice.
Can you describe that?
I provide medication and therapy to individuals who have been sexually assaulted.
Can you tell us about your training.
Medical degree 1987, residency 1991. Over the years I've been appointed to various government panels. On faculty at Temple University, forensic psychiatry with a focus on sex crimes. I have assessed well over a couple of thousand victims of sexual assault and over a thousand offenders.
And you do have a medical degree?
Yes, and licensed in a number of states including California.
Do you hold any positions as a professor?
Yes, I'm a professor in the Temple U medical school.
You've heard the term rape trauma, what is that?
It's actually not a medical term. PTSD is a medical term that more accurately reflects the diagnoses of individuals of sexual assault. Rape trauma describes a number of effects that might not rise to a medical diagnosis.
(Asks her about history testifying.)
I've been certified as an expert 250 to 300 times. In this case I was asked to give blind testimony.
And what does that mean?
(She says that she does not know the case, has not read materials of it.) I am here to educate the jury about common misconceptions of sexual assault.
Any media coverage?
No.
You're being compensated?
Yes.
And that includes travel?
Yes.
And you've traveled from the east coast, correct?
Yes.
Are there particular, common counterintuitive victim responses (CVR).
This involves rape myths. These are widely held beliefs about SA. Most people think SA is done by a stranger. 85 percent is done by someone known to the victim. Another myth, that a victim will fight back. In fact, even in stranger rape, fighting is only 15 percent. Verbal, screaming, calling out, is also relatively rare, in 25 to 40 percent, and that's in stranger assault. Other misconceptions are that victims of SA don't have subsequent contact with the perpetrator. Like I said, 85 percent is done by someone known. Not uncommon for them to have contact afterwards. Even a relationship can develop, which is very counterintuitive.
(Asks her about resistance.)
She says that its unusual for a victim to fight back against a stranger, even rarer against someone they know. When someone is being attacked by someone they know, it can be very confusing for them. It takes them longer to figure out what's going on. And in most cases, women use much more subtle forms of refusal. Trying to change the subject, saying they're having their period, but the force of saying no doesn't happen all that often. People don't know what's going on and they certainly don't resist physical or scream. They use what we call refusal messages.
Mueller asks about the concept of labeling, to a known offender. Labeling something a rape.
Victims of SA also hold on to the myths. Victims believe rape occurs with strangers. So another rape myth is that women do something to bring this on, the way they dressed, or where they went, or what they wore. It's very common for victims to think they did something to bring it on. That makes it difficult for them to understand that it wasn't consensual, that it was rape. It's a humiliating experience, most women would prefer to forget about it and go on with their lives. That leads to a difficulty of labeling it rape or sexual assault. No one wants to be a victim of rape. So they think, maybe i did something to bring it on, maybe he really likes me -- these thoughts help them deal with it.
How does the length of a relationship affect that.
It can. if you're living with someone for a long time and you're sexually assaulted, virtually all of those women go back. Those who are assaulted on a first date, if you don't have a sense of trust, if you don't know someone, that doesn't mean they also won't go through that process. For an established relationship this almost always holds true.
What about if there was some abuse in that relationship as well. Like emotional abuse.
There is a huge amount of literature on intimate partner violence, which can run from emotional abuse -- being cold and withholding and calling names -- all the way to extreme forms of physical abuse and sexual assault. It's generally escalating. And those women who are involved in those situations almost always return. And sometimes with really disastrous effect.
What brings them back?
Lots of things. Things like not wanting to believe it's true. Wanting to believe that they are cared about. There are lots of things that draw them back, including the fact that no one is like that all the time. So the person who does that do to you at night, that might be the person you had a great dinner with. No one is an evil human being 24 hours a day. So women go back looking for the man who was better to them. Maybe he was drinking, maybe he had a bad day, but that's not the man I fell in love with.
What about post-assault sexual contact, does that occur? In a relationship of years.
Yes, it does. Almost always. There are famous cases. There's a Craigslist rapist, who would rape a woman on a first date, and a certain percentage of those women would end up having a sexual relationship with that person. In relationships, when attacks occur, that almost always happen. Women feel bad about themselves and they go back in sometimes they believe they deserve it. They are hoping if they have sex and recreate something good between them, it will bring the good person back.
What is the impact of, say you have someone in a live-in relationship and the other partner, if he's not getting the sex he wants and he's going into the other room and avoiding the person.
Yeah, it's debilitating when someone does that. Women will begin to blame themselves, it's me, and it becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy. That dynamic of having someone making you feel bad about yourself, so people do what they can to feel good about themselves. So what's the remedy to get what you want? That's what women do.
What about an acquaintance, more of a one-time date, and they're raped. As far as post-incident contact, is that unusual?
No, its not unusual, and like I've said I've examined thousands of victims of SA. And it's quite common for there to be post-incident contact. There is a paper of 2022, sexual assault on college campuses, and 70 or 80 percent of victims have subsequent contact. And they have it for a lot of reasons, but let's start with, people want to make sense of things, they want to understand. So what's the impact of SA? It's psychological. SA is psychologically damaging. It makes the victim feel horrible about themselves, like they don't matter in this world, worthless and dirty -- it's a psychological injury. What is a person going to do? They will make themselves feel better. If they can do that by having contact and making them feel less worthless... Now it often doesn't turn out that way, but it helps understand why there's subsequent contact.
Mueller asks about women setting boundaries.
You don't need to write out a contract, but yes, of course there are boundaries and limitations to what someone will allow to happen to their body.
How many people report?
It's among the least reported crime, only about 15 percent of the time. Most women don't report SA. And when it is reported, it is prosecuted even less. And stranger assault is more readily reported than with someone known.
When they do report, if the victim has not been involved in the legal system before, has not given interviews before, with regards to statements they give. Would you expect open statements to give?
I don't know if it matters if someone has experience or not, SA is very difficult to talk about. People are going to ask you about your genitalia or what put what where -- it's uncomfortable. It's one of the reasons people do not report. So it's not unusual for someone to give a piecemeal disclosure -- to give away a little bit of information, hoping that will suffice. that happens in all cases of SA, regardless if they have previous experience of giving information.
Mueller asks about burying something and then talking about it years later.
If the way that a person has coped is to shut it down, it's going to be difficult to talk about.
Now turning to date-rape drugs. How do drugs affect CVR?
It impairs your motor coordination and your memory and your ability to make judgments. It can make people feel very confused about what happened. Date rape drugs go from alcohol, which is the common, to GHB (most powerful). And it impairs the memory... She's explaining that during a traumatic experience, the memory is focused on the key facts and other peripheral things become lost.
Is there a difference between a blackout versus being unconscious?
Being blackout is being unconscious. If you are intoxicated, you can have flashbulb memories. So you may have fragmented memory. I was a physician wouldn't call that a blackout. A blackout implies loss of consciousness. There is no medical term "blackout."
Mueller asks about someone being interviewed by multiple people over time.
Proper interviewing techniques are important: What is recorded depends on the interviewer. If something isn't asked, it might not be divulged by the victim. If five different people interview them, with different techniques, you might get five different answers.
Women who experience a prior sexual assault, does that have an effect?
Individuals who have been assaulted are more likely to be victimized again. Also, SA causes psychological problems, so if you have two assaults, it can yes influence all the behaviors we've been talking about.
Someone sticking around after an assault.
That happens all of the time. People don't up and leave. Why they stay is as complex as the other things we have been talking about. They may stay because their intoxicated, or embarrassed, or they hope that this person who has assaulted them can make it better by saying I adore you or something. But almost universally, they stay.
Sex after an assault?
I've heard women say, I'm used goods anyway, I'm trash. So it's not uncommon.
No further questions.
We'll take our afternoon break and then come back for cross-examination.
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Wish this expert was also testifying at the Trump rape trial
I liked the way this went better than last trial