48:00. When Bruce called me, I told him about Dan Garvin! And Bruce knew Dan too, and Dan said even with Dan being ex OSA, and Dan going to Clearwater to protest, STILL Dan got no backlash.
SO learning no backlash, is great to hear. Yea, Bruce was someone I always looked up to, and am so happy he and the others in those 2004-5 years did do media. (Thanks Patty Moher and her parties, and Prof Kent ,Prof Touretzky, Barbs, and Tayna Durni, the others at Patty's parties, who encouraged the ex's speak up). I knew Bruce from when my first ex wife used to be Director of Processing when Bruce was working auditing NOTs in the Flag NOTs original HGC, LOL.)
Leiby called me, since Arnie Lerma was still in touch, and me calling Arnie put me in touch with Leiby, and then Leiby to me to Bruce.
Bruce then did the LA Times article with Maureen, Karen Pressley, etc.
But really Gerry Armstrong had really taken the heat for everyone ,and it's why Gerry truly truly truly, is just to be so thanked for sticking his little neck out decades ago. And Gerry being on LRH's line, and doing so intimately what Gerry did. (But thanks all the way back to Hubbard's earliest ex's who took heat, it's all on Hubbard.)
Can’t get enough of Bruce Hines. He makes me feel like less of a fool for my 35 year affiliation with this horrible group.
I just wanted to add a snippet of my own experience with the terror that David Miscavige elicited from not only staff but lowly members: I was studying in the course room with my sandals by my feet and my back was to the door. All of a sudden the Sea Org supervisor in a very fearful way said, “Mary put on your shoes!” I did and looked to see David Miscavige walking by with his entourage and an immediate fear came over me and the rest. He loved instilling fear in those around him.
38:00. On "mediating" duties that Shelly would perform, the Hubbard reference for this is in one of the ESTO lectures, where LRH says/admits even he has lambasted subordinates and they needing "picking up" afterwards, to bolster them back up. LRH in this particular ESTO tape lectures does give this duty to the ESTO (Establishment Officer, a kind of HR overseer and staff "establishment" overseer job, which is normally a co-boss around a "senior" product officer/production boss).
Two other "Mediator" role jobs in all orgs, is the "Chaplain" and the "Staff Section Officer" who are the two persons allowed to even know of when a staff member wishes to quit. Quitting staff is limited knowledge and discussable only between certain staff, and the Chaplain and Staff Section Officer are allowed to be in the know and talk to quitter staff.
Establishment Officer duties in all Scientology organizations, do have the option and duty to "pick up" off the ground the staff who've been laid waste to by superiors, and bolster them back up.
LRH reference is that ESTO tape, forget which one.
23:00. "what were you doing" in a typical day in Sea Org.
a) You write your daily "battleplan" first thing every day. It's a list of many 10-30 things you wish to accomplish.
b) You review what "programs" you have for your post, and "targets" of those programs you will work on, and which targets you will submit "compliance reports" for, and a CR (Compliance Report) has to be submitted up the chain of command and be approved by several superiors, for you to "count" the CR as "complete." Your sub stat of "submitted CRs" is one thing and "approved CRs" is another.
Doing main targets on programs for your area, ARE your priority.
Some times have so many daily required duties, that you don't have time to do "compliance reports" there are such a wide variety of jobs in Sea Org, some jobs don't have a lot of "targets" assigned to them, because those jobs are so obvious jobs that require all your attention just doing that job.
So some job have simple "battle plans" to write, daily.
Other jobs, which do have lots of targets to accomplish, have many more compliance reports to "work on" as they cannot be accomplished in one day, and day multiple days, sometimes weeks or longer, to finish some targets, there are so many dependencies to fulfill to get one target done. (For instance a target: "Get 5 new recruits". as one target can take weeks or months.
Some jobs, like Director of Communication, has so many daily actions, they don't have really many "targets" for their jobs at all, they just do the comm runs all day long, and do comm basket inspections, or other routine things that don't require a program with targets to be done.
The "org board" lists out hundreds of jobs in a Scientology church. Of those hundreds of jobs, most jobs hold "multiple" positions, and in practice this is done by "holding positions from above" meaning that the upper positions hold ALL of the lower positions UNfulfilled beneath them. That takes a bit of thinking about.
If you are the ONLY one and the boss of a whole division (there are 7 divisional bosses, 9 divisional bosses in most orgs) and if as a divisional boss you only have 5 underlings, that means you might have to additionally hold all the vacancies or holes, beneath you. And your underlings who have holes and vacancies underneath them have to hold all those functions of their vacancies.
All "orgs" (fake churches) have vacancies, and the staff there, are just non stop hopping around daily doing ALL of the key required duties of their vacancies, which is why the staffs always look so busy.
Hubbard built these massive big and always NEVER filled "org chart" organizations with always staff holes/vacancies to the required functions.
It is a losing proposition from day one to the day you quit, at any level in any organization.
There are continually and necessarily SOME duties not being done, per the Hubbard whole massive org chart for ALL Scientology organizations, ALWAYS.
You are always running to never catch up. One of the features of the rat race staff life, in all Hubbard organizations at all points of the hierarchy of the cult bureaucracy.
That Hubbard padded his Scientology staff "orgs" with such huge huge additional staff positions and duties to be performed, all for the purpose of delivering and selling the Hubbard Scientology quackery training and delivery, it's all a pretentious bloated "religion angle" faux practice.
I think if you think of Scientology as another subject, say dentistry or chiropractor; then you quickly see it by comparison.
Scientology is training members to become the "auditor" which is the pseudo-therapist, and there are Class 0 to Class 12 "auditors".
The auditors are the pseudo-therapists, or the dentists/chiropractors of Scientology.
Upper secret Scientology you have the "exorcists" which are in fact the Class 9 level auditors.
And all Scientologists who reach the OT 3 course of Scientology, become self exorcists, they learn to do the exorcism of surplus bodiless souls off and out of their human bodies.
So, long story short, Scientology is a quackery pseudo-therapist/exorcist training subject, and the Scientology "churches" are actually training centers to purchase the training and purchase the actual pseudo-therapy/exorcism to be done on oneself.
Becoming the pseudo-therapist/exorcist is one big part. Receiving the pseudo-therapy/exorcism is another big part.
So it's like going to the Dentist's to get your dentistry, but also become the dentist.
Dentisting your way to supposed enlightenment.
The ex's who speak up and criticise, most were part of the additional staff manning the bloated offices rat race interior of the quackery centers and in the quackery oversight management echelons of this bloated delusional outfit.
That’s true. We saw it from the inside. We also saw the bloat continue to expand. We need more people! Must be fully staffed! How asinine.
A business owner would never consider hiring 50 people before they opened their doors. The amazing thing to me is how everyone was running around in circles and nothing was getting done.
Simple filing, the basics of an organization was not done, and still isn’t. It’s easy to do your filling as you go, but in the Hubbard bloat that wasn’t allowed. In, pending, out baskets (yep I did all the staff statuses). Damn, pick up the paper, deal with it. File it. The end.
So many details, but only two of the "IG" network people were close to being "full hatted" and that would be Greg Wilhere and Ray Mithoff, who were both Class 12s. Yager never got even to Class 6, and Miscavige didn't get to Class 6 "Interned" but only straight Class 6. And Marty was nothing, not even Class 4.
So in truth, for the subject, what LRH left for all to rise up and become Class 12 auditor/case supervisors, it was only Ray Mithoff who was closest to being "fully hatted" for the top IG positions.
I had Greg Wilhere for a boss in the 1977 time slot of my Sea Org career.
I chatted with Ray Mithoff when he was on the RPF (Bruce was Case Supervisor on the RPF then) about some "tech" Hubbard writings which I knew Ray would be happy to discuss, it's the 'Time Track" bulletin and how important that bulletin is to the overall definition and understanding of even what Scientology is all doing. I lobbed Ray a softball question to get his reaction about the "Time Track" bulletin once, and he gave a gushing answer how important, which I knew he would, that issue is to all the theory of Scientology.
The movement and the people in it, for instance Yager, I remember when he was about 15 years old, in Clearwater 1975-76 in CMO there, he was in the juvenile ranks of the CMO, even before Miscavige came to join the juvenile ranks too in 1976. Then I knew Yager when he was CO CMO Int/Watchdog Committee Chairman, he sat and reviewed one by one, all of the "routing forms" 90 paperwork submissions I had made, his approval was needed on every single "routing form". That was 1983.
Later when Yager was busted to the swamp, I was priorly busted from ASI to the same area Old Gilman House area, which has the swamp right next to it, and I was living IN the shiney pull along mobile trailer that ASI staff usually used for their "decks" living quarters when ASI staff get busted to the decks and go to Int Base to do cleanup. I cleaned up the shiney trailer so Yager then could pull it into the swamp which became his housing for the next year or so, and he bushwhacked and helped drain that swamp, LOL, as his manual labor penalty. It was dreadful to see him reduced to that shellshocked mentality when he first was sent to the swamp.
I glanced at him daily, he had a full time security guard with him watching him, as he bushwhacked. When he came to use the same shower that the other "decks" staff used, he acted sychophantishly demuring and "Sir" to all us even busted "decks" people standing in line to use the shower as he walked by. It was horrible to see how he'd been beaten down.
There is so much details to everyone's lives in this Hubbard crap mess of upper Scientology staff pecking order.
So much framing and the ever evolving changes in the totem pole who is "top dog" and "top dogs" as the fads of who Hubbard considered "good" and "top" and then when Hubbard was gone, it was all up to Miscavige to determine the hierarchy of who was "good" and despite how much LRH facetime others had had greater than Miscavige.
I always graded everyone, then and now, by how much LRH facetime they had racked up, and how much they adhered to the full LRH outlay of writings and theory of the subject's main purposes.
One failing ALL have, is not rising to become the top Class 12 level of auditor. Miscavige is only half way through Class 6 level, he's not an interned Class 6 and would have to redo his training, literally from the bottom.
The Hubbard "Class of auditor" system has been let diminish in importance from even how to grade a Scientologist in terms of their being what LRH wanted of everyone.
For staffs, LRH wanted all staffs to rise up to be the top Class of auditor, and finish the full administrative training lineup. There is a system called "Staff Statuses" and that gets absolutely NO attention.
The highest Staff Status staff members get no mention, no appreciation.
John Eastment was one who almost got the full Staff Status levels.
I don't know of anyone at the Int Base today even close to the top Staff Status levels.
Amy, I hear it just fine on both my phone and iPad, and I tried on Spotify and apple podcasts as well to make sure it imported too, is there a possibility there is something wrong with your speaker? I hope you were able to get the sound issue resolved.
48:00. When Bruce called me, I told him about Dan Garvin! And Bruce knew Dan too, and Dan said even with Dan being ex OSA, and Dan going to Clearwater to protest, STILL Dan got no backlash.
SO learning no backlash, is great to hear. Yea, Bruce was someone I always looked up to, and am so happy he and the others in those 2004-5 years did do media. (Thanks Patty Moher and her parties, and Prof Kent ,Prof Touretzky, Barbs, and Tayna Durni, the others at Patty's parties, who encouraged the ex's speak up). I knew Bruce from when my first ex wife used to be Director of Processing when Bruce was working auditing NOTs in the Flag NOTs original HGC, LOL.)
Leiby called me, since Arnie Lerma was still in touch, and me calling Arnie put me in touch with Leiby, and then Leiby to me to Bruce.
Bruce then did the LA Times article with Maureen, Karen Pressley, etc.
But really Gerry Armstrong had really taken the heat for everyone ,and it's why Gerry truly truly truly, is just to be so thanked for sticking his little neck out decades ago. And Gerry being on LRH's line, and doing so intimately what Gerry did. (But thanks all the way back to Hubbard's earliest ex's who took heat, it's all on Hubbard.)
Can’t get enough of Bruce Hines. He makes me feel like less of a fool for my 35 year affiliation with this horrible group.
I just wanted to add a snippet of my own experience with the terror that David Miscavige elicited from not only staff but lowly members: I was studying in the course room with my sandals by my feet and my back was to the door. All of a sudden the Sea Org supervisor in a very fearful way said, “Mary put on your shoes!” I did and looked to see David Miscavige walking by with his entourage and an immediate fear came over me and the rest. He loved instilling fear in those around him.
38:00. On "mediating" duties that Shelly would perform, the Hubbard reference for this is in one of the ESTO lectures, where LRH says/admits even he has lambasted subordinates and they needing "picking up" afterwards, to bolster them back up. LRH in this particular ESTO tape lectures does give this duty to the ESTO (Establishment Officer, a kind of HR overseer and staff "establishment" overseer job, which is normally a co-boss around a "senior" product officer/production boss).
Two other "Mediator" role jobs in all orgs, is the "Chaplain" and the "Staff Section Officer" who are the two persons allowed to even know of when a staff member wishes to quit. Quitting staff is limited knowledge and discussable only between certain staff, and the Chaplain and Staff Section Officer are allowed to be in the know and talk to quitter staff.
Establishment Officer duties in all Scientology organizations, do have the option and duty to "pick up" off the ground the staff who've been laid waste to by superiors, and bolster them back up.
LRH reference is that ESTO tape, forget which one.
23:00. "what were you doing" in a typical day in Sea Org.
a) You write your daily "battleplan" first thing every day. It's a list of many 10-30 things you wish to accomplish.
b) You review what "programs" you have for your post, and "targets" of those programs you will work on, and which targets you will submit "compliance reports" for, and a CR (Compliance Report) has to be submitted up the chain of command and be approved by several superiors, for you to "count" the CR as "complete." Your sub stat of "submitted CRs" is one thing and "approved CRs" is another.
Doing main targets on programs for your area, ARE your priority.
Some times have so many daily required duties, that you don't have time to do "compliance reports" there are such a wide variety of jobs in Sea Org, some jobs don't have a lot of "targets" assigned to them, because those jobs are so obvious jobs that require all your attention just doing that job.
So some job have simple "battle plans" to write, daily.
Other jobs, which do have lots of targets to accomplish, have many more compliance reports to "work on" as they cannot be accomplished in one day, and day multiple days, sometimes weeks or longer, to finish some targets, there are so many dependencies to fulfill to get one target done. (For instance a target: "Get 5 new recruits". as one target can take weeks or months.
Some jobs, like Director of Communication, has so many daily actions, they don't have really many "targets" for their jobs at all, they just do the comm runs all day long, and do comm basket inspections, or other routine things that don't require a program with targets to be done.
The "org board" lists out hundreds of jobs in a Scientology church. Of those hundreds of jobs, most jobs hold "multiple" positions, and in practice this is done by "holding positions from above" meaning that the upper positions hold ALL of the lower positions UNfulfilled beneath them. That takes a bit of thinking about.
If you are the ONLY one and the boss of a whole division (there are 7 divisional bosses, 9 divisional bosses in most orgs) and if as a divisional boss you only have 5 underlings, that means you might have to additionally hold all the vacancies or holes, beneath you. And your underlings who have holes and vacancies underneath them have to hold all those functions of their vacancies.
All "orgs" (fake churches) have vacancies, and the staff there, are just non stop hopping around daily doing ALL of the key required duties of their vacancies, which is why the staffs always look so busy.
Hubbard built these massive big and always NEVER filled "org chart" organizations with always staff holes/vacancies to the required functions.
It is a losing proposition from day one to the day you quit, at any level in any organization.
There are continually and necessarily SOME duties not being done, per the Hubbard whole massive org chart for ALL Scientology organizations, ALWAYS.
You are always running to never catch up. One of the features of the rat race staff life, in all Hubbard organizations at all points of the hierarchy of the cult bureaucracy.
And most of what is being done is unnecessary busywork.
Yes.
That Hubbard padded his Scientology staff "orgs" with such huge huge additional staff positions and duties to be performed, all for the purpose of delivering and selling the Hubbard Scientology quackery training and delivery, it's all a pretentious bloated "religion angle" faux practice.
I think if you think of Scientology as another subject, say dentistry or chiropractor; then you quickly see it by comparison.
Scientology is training members to become the "auditor" which is the pseudo-therapist, and there are Class 0 to Class 12 "auditors".
The auditors are the pseudo-therapists, or the dentists/chiropractors of Scientology.
Upper secret Scientology you have the "exorcists" which are in fact the Class 9 level auditors.
And all Scientologists who reach the OT 3 course of Scientology, become self exorcists, they learn to do the exorcism of surplus bodiless souls off and out of their human bodies.
So, long story short, Scientology is a quackery pseudo-therapist/exorcist training subject, and the Scientology "churches" are actually training centers to purchase the training and purchase the actual pseudo-therapy/exorcism to be done on oneself.
Becoming the pseudo-therapist/exorcist is one big part. Receiving the pseudo-therapy/exorcism is another big part.
So it's like going to the Dentist's to get your dentistry, but also become the dentist.
Dentisting your way to supposed enlightenment.
The ex's who speak up and criticise, most were part of the additional staff manning the bloated offices rat race interior of the quackery centers and in the quackery oversight management echelons of this bloated delusional outfit.
That’s true. We saw it from the inside. We also saw the bloat continue to expand. We need more people! Must be fully staffed! How asinine.
A business owner would never consider hiring 50 people before they opened their doors. The amazing thing to me is how everyone was running around in circles and nothing was getting done.
Simple filing, the basics of an organization was not done, and still isn’t. It’s easy to do your filling as you go, but in the Hubbard bloat that wasn’t allowed. In, pending, out baskets (yep I did all the staff statuses). Damn, pick up the paper, deal with it. File it. The end.
So many details, but only two of the "IG" network people were close to being "full hatted" and that would be Greg Wilhere and Ray Mithoff, who were both Class 12s. Yager never got even to Class 6, and Miscavige didn't get to Class 6 "Interned" but only straight Class 6. And Marty was nothing, not even Class 4.
So in truth, for the subject, what LRH left for all to rise up and become Class 12 auditor/case supervisors, it was only Ray Mithoff who was closest to being "fully hatted" for the top IG positions.
I had Greg Wilhere for a boss in the 1977 time slot of my Sea Org career.
I chatted with Ray Mithoff when he was on the RPF (Bruce was Case Supervisor on the RPF then) about some "tech" Hubbard writings which I knew Ray would be happy to discuss, it's the 'Time Track" bulletin and how important that bulletin is to the overall definition and understanding of even what Scientology is all doing. I lobbed Ray a softball question to get his reaction about the "Time Track" bulletin once, and he gave a gushing answer how important, which I knew he would, that issue is to all the theory of Scientology.
The movement and the people in it, for instance Yager, I remember when he was about 15 years old, in Clearwater 1975-76 in CMO there, he was in the juvenile ranks of the CMO, even before Miscavige came to join the juvenile ranks too in 1976. Then I knew Yager when he was CO CMO Int/Watchdog Committee Chairman, he sat and reviewed one by one, all of the "routing forms" 90 paperwork submissions I had made, his approval was needed on every single "routing form". That was 1983.
Later when Yager was busted to the swamp, I was priorly busted from ASI to the same area Old Gilman House area, which has the swamp right next to it, and I was living IN the shiney pull along mobile trailer that ASI staff usually used for their "decks" living quarters when ASI staff get busted to the decks and go to Int Base to do cleanup. I cleaned up the shiney trailer so Yager then could pull it into the swamp which became his housing for the next year or so, and he bushwhacked and helped drain that swamp, LOL, as his manual labor penalty. It was dreadful to see him reduced to that shellshocked mentality when he first was sent to the swamp.
I glanced at him daily, he had a full time security guard with him watching him, as he bushwhacked. When he came to use the same shower that the other "decks" staff used, he acted sychophantishly demuring and "Sir" to all us even busted "decks" people standing in line to use the shower as he walked by. It was horrible to see how he'd been beaten down.
There is so much details to everyone's lives in this Hubbard crap mess of upper Scientology staff pecking order.
So much framing and the ever evolving changes in the totem pole who is "top dog" and "top dogs" as the fads of who Hubbard considered "good" and "top" and then when Hubbard was gone, it was all up to Miscavige to determine the hierarchy of who was "good" and despite how much LRH facetime others had had greater than Miscavige.
I always graded everyone, then and now, by how much LRH facetime they had racked up, and how much they adhered to the full LRH outlay of writings and theory of the subject's main purposes.
One failing ALL have, is not rising to become the top Class 12 level of auditor. Miscavige is only half way through Class 6 level, he's not an interned Class 6 and would have to redo his training, literally from the bottom.
The Hubbard "Class of auditor" system has been let diminish in importance from even how to grade a Scientologist in terms of their being what LRH wanted of everyone.
For staffs, LRH wanted all staffs to rise up to be the top Class of auditor, and finish the full administrative training lineup. There is a system called "Staff Statuses" and that gets absolutely NO attention.
The highest Staff Status staff members get no mention, no appreciation.
John Eastment was one who almost got the full Staff Status levels.
I don't know of anyone at the Int Base today even close to the top Staff Status levels.
Interesting that it was the same couple steps for me on my way out:
1. DM was squirreling the tech.
2. WOGs were NOT less then scientologists.
Thank you Tony and Bruce. You are changing lives and lightning the load for many.
It's such a joy to know the whole con is falling apart. 💕
Hard to hear- even at max volume
Amy, I hear it just fine on both my phone and iPad, and I tried on Spotify and apple podcasts as well to make sure it imported too, is there a possibility there is something wrong with your speaker? I hope you were able to get the sound issue resolved.