Scientology's medical abuse is horrific. Most Scientologists TRY to use auditing and "all natural" for anything, and way, way, waaay too many die.
L Ron Hubbard wrote me a letter in 1972, when they were routing me out of the Sea Org, because I needed a refill on my medication for Epilepsy. He said: " Get auditing in the HGC, handle (fix, get rid of) Epilepsy...and we will see you up the lin
I'm sorry about Kirstie, who at least did use some medical? At least now she is finally free from that mind control, soul sucking Fraudulent Business, pretending to be a "religion". Sorry I am not more kind about this organization....but having lived through what I did, too many die.
Sad to loose anyone to cancer. Thanks for the balanced reporting, as always Tony. What do OT8’s do to keep going in Scientology? I’ve often wondered that. I’m sure they donate lots of $$, but what do they do within Scientology after reaching that point?
I know my husband did OT 8, and was a complete wreck after. After I woke up & escaped out...I talked to someone whose job it was to fix OT 8's.
She left Scientology altogether, and called me.
I asked what got her to leave?
"Sooooo.many OT 8's were dying, sick, or committing suicide....I just could not stay, so I left".
What do the rest do? For those that didn't happen to, no doubt they are pitching how great it is, trying to make more $$$, and waiting for OT 9 to be released.
.pssst! Secret: start connecting the dots. YOU are not wrong. 👍
They keep going by continuing auditing, which means they keep paying $$. They are also sometimes asked/made to pay for "updated" Scientology sets of books. (They are also "encouraged" to help pay things for others, as was the case with Paul Haggis, since he was asked to pay off the mortgages of several other Scientologists -- which he never got paid back.)
Even as a believer? Wow, that says a lot. It really means to me that there was already a doubt about the Scientologist's "character" (for lack of a better word). Paul Haggis' ex-wife said that five people got their mortgages paid off by him and he never saw a penny of that back. As an aside, my mother used to say that to loan money one should look at it as if it were a gift being given out, and getting it repaid would be a bonus. She was not a Scientologist. ;-) Also, I want to ask you about the OT8s you mention in your other comment ... I realize it's obvious that there are fewer OT8s than anybody else because it's at the top and because it's so costly that few can afford it; but having said that, do most people who achieve OT8 end up leaving once they find out the truth? You mentioned that many left. But do most actually stay? I'm curious about what it feels like for most of them to find out it was all crap. When I read first accounts like yours, I get the chills. Finally, do you get harassed for speaking out? Or do you get to speak out and still live your life peacefully? Several questions here and maybe not the place for them, but I figured I'd ask while I had the chance :-)
Great conversion. Tory has been harassed to the moon and back. She's said that every time she's ready to move on and leave Scientology in the rear view mirror, they will do something new and nasty to her and, what do you know? It fires Tory up to continue to speak out.
Melanie...all I can say is many OT 8's have left. What does it feel like? It's different than you think. Scientology is like a triangle. In 1969, when I began, there were tons of people at the bottom. By 2000, when I fully woke up...I had no attention on the giant screw. All I cared about was truly getting out and as far away from people I knew would try to get me. I was thrilled to be able to look and read anything and talk with anyone.
I know they pitch that's what
They believe. Just ask them about me or XENU and will they talk with me? They'll say "sure"(lying). If you can, call me and I'll come. Don't bother...I've tried to talk with them for 22 years!
Remember I was just going to leave quietly. THEY turned me into a spokesperson!! Way to go, "dave". 🤣
P.S. My life is *my* life. They can lie about me from here to the moon. Truth wins, every time. Which is why I say:
Often they are made to re-do early training. Sometimes it's repackaged, often it's literally just a do-over. The emphasis post-OT8 is on donations to the IAS to elevate their "status". The carrot is the promise of OTs 9 and 10 which Hubbard never wrote, so they're in for a long wait!
Just the very fact they sold something that didn't exist! At least when they're flogging people the Basics for the 18th time there's something tangible there.
I lost my father, an OT8 & Class VIII, to cancer. He was not diagnosed until he was stage 4. He was then deemed an illegal PC due to his diagnosis. He received field auditing up until he passed away. It’s a horrible part of how he left.
Thanks Tony! I'm sorry when anyone dies and I'm sad for her family! But man, maybe it could have been avoided for her and for so many others. I only wish that her death will open some more eyes. Thanks for the informative update. Stay dry!!!
Very good article in Rolling Stone, Mr. Proprietor. Also, I think (hope) when people write, "I thought OT8s could cure themselves," what many actually mean is, "I thought OT8s thought they could cure themselves." Some of the people writing it that way do know better and I may have worded it that way myself at some point, meant as an ironic statement in a way ...
Good article, Tony! It's always sad to lose anyone, and I hope Kirstie's kids get free.
I fought Scientology for 30 years about my medicine for Epilepsy, as you know, Tony. Twice I nearly died, and I watched way, way, waaay too many Scios die trying to handle (fix, get rid of) Cancer naturally.
She is now free from that mind control trap. May she fly high 🌹
Cheers was one of my favorite shows as a teenager, and I do mourn her loss, but I will remember that this woman used her fame and wealth to promote and support a dangerous cult, and was known to be very hostile to people who spoke out against it.
Her daughters posted thanks to her cancer doctors, which means she went against her “religion” and sought actual medical help, which certainly gave them more time together. I hope her pain and suffering were eased and that her family are at peace.
It’s nice when Scientologists are allowed to get proper medical care, even if all it does is let them die with dignity, on their own terms. I can only think of Lisa McPherson, of course.
Sigh....I know for me I saw hundreds of friends die way to young. In the 90's I asked Hubbard (& my) Dr what is going on that All of these people are dying?
He told me this:
"Every person who has tried to handle Cancer naturally is d e a d.
Those that got some medical & some natural:
"Some lived, some died. Those are our statistics".
I fought them for 30 years about taking my medicine that controls Epilepsy.
I know, personally, 16 young people who took their own lives.
"It's nice when Scientologists are allowed to get proper medical care"?
The "wasband. (ex-husband's)" lady friend is OT 8, as is he. She has total kidney failure and is on dialysis. . ...She postponed medical attention and is now in very poor condition
Scientology's medical abuse is horrific. Most Scientologists TRY to use auditing and "all natural" for anything, and way, way, waaay too many die.
L Ron Hubbard wrote me a letter in 1972, when they were routing me out of the Sea Org, because I needed a refill on my medication for Epilepsy. He said: " Get auditing in the HGC, handle (fix, get rid of) Epilepsy...and we will see you up the lin
I'm sorry about Kirstie, who at least did use some medical? At least now she is finally free from that mind control, soul sucking Fraudulent Business, pretending to be a "religion". Sorry I am not more kind about this organization....but having lived through what I did, too many die.
You go, girl!
Thank you Jason! Will do 👍🌹
Sad to loose anyone to cancer. Thanks for the balanced reporting, as always Tony. What do OT8’s do to keep going in Scientology? I’ve often wondered that. I’m sure they donate lots of $$, but what do they do within Scientology after reaching that point?
I know my husband did OT 8, and was a complete wreck after. After I woke up & escaped out...I talked to someone whose job it was to fix OT 8's.
She left Scientology altogether, and called me.
I asked what got her to leave?
"Sooooo.many OT 8's were dying, sick, or committing suicide....I just could not stay, so I left".
What do the rest do? For those that didn't happen to, no doubt they are pitching how great it is, trying to make more $$$, and waiting for OT 9 to be released.
.pssst! Secret: start connecting the dots. YOU are not wrong. 👍
They keep going by continuing auditing, which means they keep paying $$. They are also sometimes asked/made to pay for "updated" Scientology sets of books. (They are also "encouraged" to help pay things for others, as was the case with Paul Haggis, since he was asked to pay off the mortgages of several other Scientologists -- which he never got paid back.)
We used to say, back when I was "in" and a serious true believer:
"NEVER lend money, especially to a Scientologist...unless you are willing (& can afford) to GIVE it away!"
Even as a believer? Wow, that says a lot. It really means to me that there was already a doubt about the Scientologist's "character" (for lack of a better word). Paul Haggis' ex-wife said that five people got their mortgages paid off by him and he never saw a penny of that back. As an aside, my mother used to say that to loan money one should look at it as if it were a gift being given out, and getting it repaid would be a bonus. She was not a Scientologist. ;-) Also, I want to ask you about the OT8s you mention in your other comment ... I realize it's obvious that there are fewer OT8s than anybody else because it's at the top and because it's so costly that few can afford it; but having said that, do most people who achieve OT8 end up leaving once they find out the truth? You mentioned that many left. But do most actually stay? I'm curious about what it feels like for most of them to find out it was all crap. When I read first accounts like yours, I get the chills. Finally, do you get harassed for speaking out? Or do you get to speak out and still live your life peacefully? Several questions here and maybe not the place for them, but I figured I'd ask while I had the chance :-)
Great conversion. Tory has been harassed to the moon and back. She's said that every time she's ready to move on and leave Scientology in the rear view mirror, they will do something new and nasty to her and, what do you know? It fires Tory up to continue to speak out.
Very true,thanks Andrea!💟🌹👍
Melanie...all I can say is many OT 8's have left. What does it feel like? It's different than you think. Scientology is like a triangle. In 1969, when I began, there were tons of people at the bottom. By 2000, when I fully woke up...I had no attention on the giant screw. All I cared about was truly getting out and as far away from people I knew would try to get me. I was thrilled to be able to look and read anything and talk with anyone.
I know they pitch that's what
They believe. Just ask them about me or XENU and will they talk with me? They'll say "sure"(lying). If you can, call me and I'll come. Don't bother...I've tried to talk with them for 22 years!
Remember I was just going to leave quietly. THEY turned me into a spokesperson!! Way to go, "dave". 🤣
P.S. My life is *my* life. They can lie about me from here to the moon. Truth wins, every time. Which is why I say:
Tick Tock, tick tock, Time is on ~our~ side! 🌹🙃
Thanks for your reply. Interesting. And good for you!
Often they are made to re-do early training. Sometimes it's repackaged, often it's literally just a do-over. The emphasis post-OT8 is on donations to the IAS to elevate their "status". The carrot is the promise of OTs 9 and 10 which Hubbard never wrote, so they're in for a long wait!
But I own an OT 9-11 package, Hubbard sold to my husband's parents. In the 90's, we were each given one of those packages. 🤣🤣
Omg, Tory, I remember you saying now! That is so corrupt 😆
Which part is corrupt? Just curious. Hubbard bled people for $$$ any way he could.
Just the very fact they sold something that didn't exist! At least when they're flogging people the Basics for the 18th time there's something tangible there.
Donate their children to the Sea Org.
The Hubbard statement to Sarge, as relayed in the final pages of Lawrence Wright's book, "Going Clear..." is reality.
Hubbard admitted, very limitedly, to Sarge only, that he failed.
But that is the obvious.
If Hubbard said he failed, he failed.
You are truly a gentleman! I wouldn't've been so compassionate. Great update! Thank you!!
I lost my father, an OT8 & Class VIII, to cancer. He was not diagnosed until he was stage 4. He was then deemed an illegal PC due to his diagnosis. He received field auditing up until he passed away. It’s a horrible part of how he left.
So sorry Snookie. That's awful.
At least he's free now. Love to you 👍💟
Thanks Tony! I'm sorry when anyone dies and I'm sad for her family! But man, maybe it could have been avoided for her and for so many others. I only wish that her death will open some more eyes. Thanks for the informative update. Stay dry!!!
Very good article in Rolling Stone, Mr. Proprietor. Also, I think (hope) when people write, "I thought OT8s could cure themselves," what many actually mean is, "I thought OT8s thought they could cure themselves." Some of the people writing it that way do know better and I may have worded it that way myself at some point, meant as an ironic statement in a way ...
Good article, Tony! It's always sad to lose anyone, and I hope Kirstie's kids get free.
I fought Scientology for 30 years about my medicine for Epilepsy, as you know, Tony. Twice I nearly died, and I watched way, way, waaay too many Scios die trying to handle (fix, get rid of) Cancer naturally.
She is now free from that mind control trap. May she fly high 🌹
Cheers was one of my favorite shows as a teenager, and I do mourn her loss, but I will remember that this woman used her fame and wealth to promote and support a dangerous cult, and was known to be very hostile to people who spoke out against it.
Her daughters posted thanks to her cancer doctors, which means she went against her “religion” and sought actual medical help, which certainly gave them more time together. I hope her pain and suffering were eased and that her family are at peace.
It’s nice when Scientologists are allowed to get proper medical care, even if all it does is let them die with dignity, on their own terms. I can only think of Lisa McPherson, of course.
Sigh....I know for me I saw hundreds of friends die way to young. In the 90's I asked Hubbard (& my) Dr what is going on that All of these people are dying?
He told me this:
"Every person who has tried to handle Cancer naturally is d e a d.
Those that got some medical & some natural:
"Some lived, some died. Those are our statistics".
I fought them for 30 years about taking my medicine that controls Epilepsy.
I know, personally, 16 young people who took their own lives.
"It's nice when Scientologists are allowed to get proper medical care"?
Please. May Kirstie fly high. 🌹
The "wasband. (ex-husband's)" lady friend is OT 8, as is he. She has total kidney failure and is on dialysis. . ...She postponed medical attention and is now in very poor condition
It broke she had Colon Cancer. If caught sooner she could have lived longer. Sad all the way around 🥺