PODCAST: Marc Headley on the Scientology spy at the Danny Masterson trial
On the first day of the Danny Masterson trial on October 11, we told you that we saw something startling: We spotted a Scientology spy in the courthouse hallway. And even more surprising, we saw the known operative walk into the courtroom with Danny Masterson’s prosecutor, Deputy DA Reinhold Mueller.
The next day we confirmed that he was on the list of witnesses for the prosecution. We know that doesn’t guarantee that he’ll testify, but if he does we figure he’ll testify pretty soon since he’s a witness connected to Jane Doe 1’s allegations, and her corroborating witnesses will begin appearing today.
One of the things we said about this operative was that he had been recruited by Scientology in order to spy on a prominent ex-member more than a decade ago. We were referring to Marc Headley, who learned about the spying operation when it was made public in 2011 on the blog of Marty Rathbun, a former high ranking official.
So in order to prepare us for the operative’s possible testimony, we thought we’d have a conversation with Headley about his relationship with him and what he learned from those Scientology documents leaked by Rathbun. And, well, this is Marc Headley, and you know you’re in for a fun time when he steps up to a microphone. So while you’re waiting for our court reports to hitting your inboxes later, please take some time and listen to our conversation, which was sent out to everyone today. (Substack doesn’t allow us to embed the podcast episode here, but you can go to it directly with this link.)
Meanwhile, over the weekend we received an interesting piece from Mirriam Francis, who had some things to say about the “no fraternizing with the enemy” policy that Jane Doe 1 referenced in court testimony, and that Chris Shelton helped us source to a late-1990s PAC Base order for Sea Org members in Los Angeles.
Here are Mirriam’s further thoughts about that policy…
I wanted to point to some additional Scientology text which relates to the statement by Jane Doe 1 when she said “It was frowned upon to fraternize with the enemy.” which was in response to the question asked of whether there were policies which impacted her relationships with others. My understanding of her statements in response to the questions which were being asked, is that there were policies in Scientology which governed who she could and could not be friends with and that this was why all of her friends were Scientologists.
I felt that Chris Shelton did a great job of covering this subject on your podcast. His description of how orders would flow from the Sea Org management on downwards out to the public is accurate. I joined the Sea Org in 1998, close to the period that he references a clamp down which occurred on “external influences” and I recognized that phrase from that time period. And his description of the culture is true to my experience.
In fact, there are many references within Scientology which would direct a person on who they should and should not be friends with and this can be especially brought to bear on a person through ethics handlings. The term “enemy” in Scientology covers a broad spectrum. It’s anyone who is contrary to the goals of Scientology.
One common way that a Scientologist might come to identify or determine an enemy is the Lower Conditions. In brief, the process of moving from the condition of Enemy up through Liability requires you to determine who you are, evaluate the differences between your group and another group and decide which one you’re going to join or befriend and then again in Liability, you are going to specifically decide who your friends are. The result of this process is you are going to develop a clear idea of who you should or should not be friends with as it aligns with Scientology.
Within Scientology people are designated as being “in good standing” or “not in good standing.” This also determines who you can be friends with.
The “Keeping Scientology Working” policy is a perfect example of how a Scientologist might understand what type of person or behaviors are considered acceptable within this group and those which are not. You’re either in or you’re out, you’re either with us or you’re not.
There are many different ways in which Scientology dictates a person’s relationships, these are just the specific references that sprung to my mind when this topic came up in the trial.
The common dictionary definition of “fraternise” is to associate or form a friendship with someone, especially when one is not supposed to. The obvious evil doers in Scientology are the media, psychiatry, government agencies and those deemed as suppressive people.
But the term “enemy” covers a much broader spectrum. It can be an aunt who made a critical comment about Scientology to you at a family gathering. It could be a public Scientologist who suggested you come to their party rather than attend a Scientology event, or a Scientologist who booked a holiday instead of donating to Scientology, or it could be a friend who doesn’t want to go back on course, or someone who ceased being on staff at a Scientology organization.
Who a person defines as enemy is subjective, but it is guided and directed by Scientology’s texts. And there are also situations where a person might be pressured in a specific direction, especially by an Ethics Officer.
Statements to the nature of the insularity of Jane Doe 1’s Scientology experience and the impacts that this had on Jane Doe 1 is relevant to this case, is present in her prior testimony and should be of no shock to the defense.
— Mirriam Francis
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