So often when only one side has presented it almost always seems to be going their way. We don’t know what the defense has on tap. These are seasoned attorneys and may surprise us all with their presentation. I’ve been on a criminal case jury and know juries for the most part want to believe someone is innocent - we’ve been taught our whole lives innocent until proven guilty. I intend to attend the trial this week and will share my thoughts afterwards. Tony is walking a fine line between being a journalist and an interested party. So far he’s navigated it beautifully. We are so lucky to have his transcripts as no other reporter is doing such. Thank you Tony!
Tony you are the best! Okay just to back you up years ago during the waltersham trial I wanted to be in the courtroom because I knew Larry wallerstein..
So one of my friends got me in the courtroom just for one day. I knew I had to become valuable or they would get me out. So I numbered all of the jurors.. and each one of them every time something was said I would I would mark down what each one of the jurors did.
It was actually kind of shocking some of the jurors fell asleep, some of the jurors were playing Tic-Tac-Toe some of the jurors were nodding yes, some of the jurors were nodding no ...but every day it was different and you're absolutely right 100%, we don't know.
As soon as I came out that day OSA Investigations came up to me and said "we want your notes"
I gave them my notes and the next day they came up to me and said we want you in the courtroom every day doing this. Did it help them? hell no! Larry Wallershiem Won 8 million dollars!
So we just don't know I'm just telling you you're 100% right we won't know until the jury comes out and says this is what they've decided . And thank you Tony Ortega for everything you are doing and have a wonderful weekend to everyone at the bunker I love you all. 💜
That will be neat when the chat gets going. That explains why I couldn’t get anything when I tried looking for the chat. I totally agree with your take on “its not over til its over”. I will be sending positive vibes that it goes in the ladies direction. Thanks for all you do, Tony. Have a wonderful weekend!
Okay. I'm going to go out on a not-so-modest limb and assume at least part of this 6 minute scolding is because of ME. The HOLLYWOOD sign beckons me to indulge in my 5 minutes of fame, so allow me to explain.
I did comment about wanting to see jury updates.
Exhibit A: "[...] I would love a daily update on the body language and facial expressions of the jury.
I feel this. I want this.
My comment was not in a tone of disappointment, nor was it a literal request. It's infused with anxious energy. I'm excited. I want another article, another podcast, another video. I want to hear and read what everyone is reporting on the trial. I want nuance and details. Most of all, I want to digest the information through my own lens, my own intuition, just as I'd do if I were an observer in the courtroom. Furthermore, I recognize that any reporting I read about body language or facial expressions would first have to pass through the reporter's personal filter, their intuition, no matter how descriptive or eloquent they happen to be.
I guess what I really want is to be in the courtroom myself.
A reply to my comment recommended a recent Live stream on Aaron's Growing Up in Scientology channel, who had a guest remark on that very topic. Quite possibly the one mentioned here. I had only made it through half that video and wasn't impressed. The gentleman had only attended for two mornings, was unsure who the defense attorney was, and didn't seem well read on previous transcripts. The video came across as conversational as opposed to reporting (which is fine), but at times leaned towards gossipy banter. "Masterson started to slink down in his chair", "I saw jurors look away", "he looks horrible", and the boldest "I think we've convinced the jury." I turned it off when he started to speculate on Masterson selling off his Rolex watches.
I'm not interested in this. This was potato chips when I'm hungry for a steak.
My takeaway was he's a good representation of an average Joe public who has listened to one expert witness in a case already decided in his mind.
I don't blame Aaron for having him on. This is HOT news right now. We're all hungry. Aaron has put out excellent content for years. This guest was a dud.
But I digress.
My original comment was without expectation but also only half of my thoughts at the time. I played with a blinking cursor for a while and ultimately decided to leave as is. I was musing a bit on Tony's approach to commenting about jurors or guests of the court. We get very clean, focused transcripts with the occasional mention of attire or attendance. He gives us far more nuance in end of day videos, often his personal take on matters, and never void of emotion. It's reasonable to keep subjective observations out of the transcript notes just as it's valid for him to share his thoughts on the details. I think it's fair to say he has a trustworthy lens.
It got me thinking about the stare down he received at the end of court from Bijou. This happened on the same day as Leah Remini's "tweet storm" was brought up. The stage was set early. Defense expressed concern that the jurors would be influenced by reading twitter. Then, as everyone is leaving, Bijou and co. give Tony the laser beams. Tony describes the moment as "having no doubt" they were monitoring him to see if he was trying to communicate with the jurors. He went on to speculate how they would love to get him booted.
cursor blinks. blinks.
"So I made sure to look away so they had nothing to complain about."
This line made me feel fairly certain that, beyond avoiding courtroom body language, Tony might not be sharing observations about members of the jury in his reports. The defense wanted the vibe to be outside influence tainting the case and Tony wasn't going to be their target, anywhere.
So I left my sentiment short (I am capable of such feats), but conclude I wish to be a fly on the wall of Judge Olmedo's courtroom.
If you've made it this far, thank you. I was elated to see the chat room invite in my mail, then disappointed to learn access is via a phone app, and heartbroken to discover it's just for those Apple people. As a result, I've released much of my frustrations through the healing glow of my keyboard.
While I’m well aware we don’t know how it will go, I feel we all are invested in seeing justice for these women. Not getting it would be a hard pill to swallow
Thanks again, Proprietor, for all you do. Glad you had a good day of riding!
No complaints, Tony, and agreeing with Muriel, we just want to be there, lol. But you are definitely the next best thing and we appreciate you so much.
I also await Aaron Smith Levin U tube videos every day as well. Millions of subscribers must hear the truth. Even , if there are minor discrepancies, I don’t care personally. The more people reports, the louder it will be. Is Tracy Macmanus coordinated with to pass on the info? Iam curious.
Also, Aaron has an awesome presence, quick elocution and speaks to the point in a manner that’s serious and fun at the same time. He is an great asset to Clearwater.
I miss Leah and Mike’s podcast. I love when you guys invite each other to speak up. Team work creates strength and it’s needed to make a lot os noise.
Miss Cabbage management wants people to shut up and not communicate. No one should be shy to express their thoughts and viewpoints or be criticized for it when the communication is done for a good cause.
I like the "body language" stuff, but the jury decides, so it's really them.
the trial watching journalists, how sharp they are, vs real statistics about juries going whichever way they go, seems about as same as baseball, maybe worse.
Is there a sub niche business on jury selection and then jury watching, and with thousands and thousands of statistics to back it up?
------------------------
I was on a jury for a complicated car accident, with prior hung juries, but our third round jury resolved it, I was on the losing percentage in the vote of this third round jury.
I was shocked, truly shocked that the majority voted as they did, me and one other jury member being the contrarians, but the majority voted clearly wrongly in my mind.
------------------------
I did search "moneyballing jury selection" thinking that might hit the spot, and low and behold, there's an article with that exact title, LOL, behind a paywall of course, for high paying law firms, I suppose who can afford some niche "moneyball" researching niche businesses.
I was on a jury and after all the evidence was in. It was the jury instructions by the judge that we had to follow. That swayed our decision. Part of the instructions was done by the defense. That was the part that worked in his favor. It was a civil case.
Is there a meeting planned? If so, please just pm me, as I'd love to meet everyone, too.. Not sure how exactly, but back in the 90's (& I was still "in")...OSA always knew when & where the critics were meeting, to the minute. So plz don't post it here.
Question : how many people here on the Bunker are in the LA area, or would come here if we had a get together? 🌹
It's not over until it's over people
So often when only one side has presented it almost always seems to be going their way. We don’t know what the defense has on tap. These are seasoned attorneys and may surprise us all with their presentation. I’ve been on a criminal case jury and know juries for the most part want to believe someone is innocent - we’ve been taught our whole lives innocent until proven guilty. I intend to attend the trial this week and will share my thoughts afterwards. Tony is walking a fine line between being a journalist and an interested party. So far he’s navigated it beautifully. We are so lucky to have his transcripts as no other reporter is doing such. Thank you Tony!
Tony you are the best! Okay just to back you up years ago during the waltersham trial I wanted to be in the courtroom because I knew Larry wallerstein..
So one of my friends got me in the courtroom just for one day. I knew I had to become valuable or they would get me out. So I numbered all of the jurors.. and each one of them every time something was said I would I would mark down what each one of the jurors did.
It was actually kind of shocking some of the jurors fell asleep, some of the jurors were playing Tic-Tac-Toe some of the jurors were nodding yes, some of the jurors were nodding no ...but every day it was different and you're absolutely right 100%, we don't know.
As soon as I came out that day OSA Investigations came up to me and said "we want your notes"
I gave them my notes and the next day they came up to me and said we want you in the courtroom every day doing this. Did it help them? hell no! Larry Wallershiem Won 8 million dollars!
So we just don't know I'm just telling you you're 100% right we won't know until the jury comes out and says this is what they've decided . And thank you Tony Ortega for everything you are doing and have a wonderful weekend to everyone at the bunker I love you all. 💜
The above all happened in the 80's, back when I was "in" scientology. I woke up & escaped out in July 2000, ftr. 🌹
That will be neat when the chat gets going. That explains why I couldn’t get anything when I tried looking for the chat. I totally agree with your take on “its not over til its over”. I will be sending positive vibes that it goes in the ladies direction. Thanks for all you do, Tony. Have a wonderful weekend!
Have an excellent weekend! 💙👍😎
Okay. I'm going to go out on a not-so-modest limb and assume at least part of this 6 minute scolding is because of ME. The HOLLYWOOD sign beckons me to indulge in my 5 minutes of fame, so allow me to explain.
I did comment about wanting to see jury updates.
Exhibit A: "[...] I would love a daily update on the body language and facial expressions of the jury.
I feel this. I want this.
My comment was not in a tone of disappointment, nor was it a literal request. It's infused with anxious energy. I'm excited. I want another article, another podcast, another video. I want to hear and read what everyone is reporting on the trial. I want nuance and details. Most of all, I want to digest the information through my own lens, my own intuition, just as I'd do if I were an observer in the courtroom. Furthermore, I recognize that any reporting I read about body language or facial expressions would first have to pass through the reporter's personal filter, their intuition, no matter how descriptive or eloquent they happen to be.
I guess what I really want is to be in the courtroom myself.
A reply to my comment recommended a recent Live stream on Aaron's Growing Up in Scientology channel, who had a guest remark on that very topic. Quite possibly the one mentioned here. I had only made it through half that video and wasn't impressed. The gentleman had only attended for two mornings, was unsure who the defense attorney was, and didn't seem well read on previous transcripts. The video came across as conversational as opposed to reporting (which is fine), but at times leaned towards gossipy banter. "Masterson started to slink down in his chair", "I saw jurors look away", "he looks horrible", and the boldest "I think we've convinced the jury." I turned it off when he started to speculate on Masterson selling off his Rolex watches.
I'm not interested in this. This was potato chips when I'm hungry for a steak.
My takeaway was he's a good representation of an average Joe public who has listened to one expert witness in a case already decided in his mind.
I don't blame Aaron for having him on. This is HOT news right now. We're all hungry. Aaron has put out excellent content for years. This guest was a dud.
But I digress.
My original comment was without expectation but also only half of my thoughts at the time. I played with a blinking cursor for a while and ultimately decided to leave as is. I was musing a bit on Tony's approach to commenting about jurors or guests of the court. We get very clean, focused transcripts with the occasional mention of attire or attendance. He gives us far more nuance in end of day videos, often his personal take on matters, and never void of emotion. It's reasonable to keep subjective observations out of the transcript notes just as it's valid for him to share his thoughts on the details. I think it's fair to say he has a trustworthy lens.
It got me thinking about the stare down he received at the end of court from Bijou. This happened on the same day as Leah Remini's "tweet storm" was brought up. The stage was set early. Defense expressed concern that the jurors would be influenced by reading twitter. Then, as everyone is leaving, Bijou and co. give Tony the laser beams. Tony describes the moment as "having no doubt" they were monitoring him to see if he was trying to communicate with the jurors. He went on to speculate how they would love to get him booted.
cursor blinks. blinks.
"So I made sure to look away so they had nothing to complain about."
This line made me feel fairly certain that, beyond avoiding courtroom body language, Tony might not be sharing observations about members of the jury in his reports. The defense wanted the vibe to be outside influence tainting the case and Tony wasn't going to be their target, anywhere.
So I left my sentiment short (I am capable of such feats), but conclude I wish to be a fly on the wall of Judge Olmedo's courtroom.
If you've made it this far, thank you. I was elated to see the chat room invite in my mail, then disappointed to learn access is via a phone app, and heartbroken to discover it's just for those Apple people. As a result, I've released much of my frustrations through the healing glow of my keyboard.
Muriel
Such an interesting comment :)
While I’m well aware we don’t know how it will go, I feel we all are invested in seeing justice for these women. Not getting it would be a hard pill to swallow
Thanks again, Proprietor, for all you do. Glad you had a good day of riding!
No complaints, Tony, and agreeing with Muriel, we just want to be there, lol. But you are definitely the next best thing and we appreciate you so much.
Hi Tony
I await your precious court reports every day
I also await Aaron Smith Levin U tube videos every day as well. Millions of subscribers must hear the truth. Even , if there are minor discrepancies, I don’t care personally. The more people reports, the louder it will be. Is Tracy Macmanus coordinated with to pass on the info? Iam curious.
Also, Aaron has an awesome presence, quick elocution and speaks to the point in a manner that’s serious and fun at the same time. He is an great asset to Clearwater.
I miss Leah and Mike’s podcast. I love when you guys invite each other to speak up. Team work creates strength and it’s needed to make a lot os noise.
Miss Cabbage management wants people to shut up and not communicate. No one should be shy to express their thoughts and viewpoints or be criticized for it when the communication is done for a good cause.
You and Aaron are spectacular!!! Thank you!!!
No complaints.
I did find this, with a search:
"Moneyballing Jury Selection"
Robert Eglet
But it's behind a paywall, as expected. Lawyer sophistry tactics costs.
I like the "body language" stuff, but the jury decides, so it's really them.
the trial watching journalists, how sharp they are, vs real statistics about juries going whichever way they go, seems about as same as baseball, maybe worse.
Is there a sub niche business on jury selection and then jury watching, and with thousands and thousands of statistics to back it up?
------------------------
I was on a jury for a complicated car accident, with prior hung juries, but our third round jury resolved it, I was on the losing percentage in the vote of this third round jury.
I was shocked, truly shocked that the majority voted as they did, me and one other jury member being the contrarians, but the majority voted clearly wrongly in my mind.
------------------------
I did search "moneyballing jury selection" thinking that might hit the spot, and low and behold, there's an article with that exact title, LOL, behind a paywall of course, for high paying law firms, I suppose who can afford some niche "moneyball" researching niche businesses.
Moneyballing Jury Selection
Robert Eglet
https://www.360advocacy.com/conference/damages-2019/
I was on a jury and after all the evidence was in. It was the jury instructions by the judge that we had to follow. That swayed our decision. Part of the instructions was done by the defense. That was the part that worked in his favor. It was a civil case.
Unfortunately I can’t play that video that Tony posted so perhaps I’ll need to get my videos from the regular channel.
Is there a meeting planned? If so, please just pm me, as I'd love to meet everyone, too.. Not sure how exactly, but back in the 90's (& I was still "in")...OSA always knew when & where the critics were meeting, to the minute. So plz don't post it here.
Question : how many people here on the Bunker are in the LA area, or would come here if we had a get together? 🌹