Can you imagine how much it pleases Scientology leader David Miscavige being able to tell a superior court judge that there’s nothing she can do about his ongoing abuse of a woman who is trying to sue him? What a spectacle. What we’re talking about is that today there is a hearing scheduled in the courtroom of Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Gail Killefer. The hearing was scheduled months ago with the assumption that by now a “religious arbitration” that Scientology has forced former member Valerie Haney into would be finished by now.
I will absolutely guarantee that Scientology has at least an audio recording of the proceedings.
Why?
First, Dave has no trust to the point of terror. (a Hubbard quote twisted for this comment, long term Scientologists will get the joke). He will at least be getting a very detailed report of the proceedings so he can micromanage them to the nth degree. That's just how he rolls.
Second, the only Hubbard policy that remotely relates to these circus acts are the Committee of Evidence (Comm Ev) rules. Which definitely and explicitly call for a cassette tape recording. I have been under a few Comm Evs. There was always a recording.
Third, the point is to break Valerie. Why do it if you can't use the recordings for a good laugh over a Macallan's and bop with your Assistant?
A judge with some instinct for real justice would probably subpoena Scientology for the records. How else can she rule on the validity of the procedure? But the judges don't want to deal with it, out of sight out of mind. Pardon me while I go in the bathroom to express my true opinion.
If not, how the heck can one do a Board of Review? .. or has that also been hacked by DM - not that it was fair to begin with but there was always a recording.
Even so (with a recording) there is nothing fair or just about scientology justice. Even if it was done exactly as the policy states, they are not fair.
It’s impossible for a person to stick up for himself after being run into the ground by all their peers and is only allowed to speak to his counselor - wait … not even that. Counseling is suspended during justice proceedings.
We can all see why this goes on. Who has a will to sue and expose after the abuse? It takes years to repair and by then it’s simply not worth it.
Beings Val is now out of the SO she does have support. Somehow we have to all do what we can to correct this.
The judge putting off any input into the delay and complications of the Arbitration, likely also is due to her load of cases.
Things have to be presented to judges clearly, so they show the unbalanced unfairness.
Scientology's arbitration is unfair, it just needs simply laying out how that is so.
When the time comes if this Arbitration drags out for years, even so, that will make for an excellent book showing how awful Scientology's system is.
If there is even another reason needed, there isn't, NOT to join Scientology, then the Arbitration example with Valerie's case, will be another great lesson NEVER to join Scientology, and quit immediately when you realize this. And NEVER NEVER EVER sign a Scientology "legal" waiver or "release" or any type of document you have to read and sign which you give up your rights in any way.
Any "religion" that makes you sign legal docs to be on their staff or do the Scientology spiritual services, that is NO religion to do that with.
I repeatedly say, if you wish to see what the Scientology quackery is all about, then just go on the internet, find out how to find the online three volumes:
a) 1991 Subject Volume 3, of the red volumes
b) 1991 Subject Volume 4, of the red volumes
c) The O.T. Levels Volume
all on the internet, skim over them, to see what the L. Ron Hubbard spiritual quackery is all about.
And never join official Scientology, ever. Because official Scientology is stuck with the full load of the maze of L. Ron Hubbard's regulations, which will punish you every which way and backwards, including when you quit.
Just never ever do official Scientology.
The internet has all the key Scientology spiritual false claims, so read it all free, and never do Scientology.
Chuck Beatty
1975 to 2003, cult bureaucrats training department mostly in my wasted 27 years in the Scientology cult Sea Org mess
It is appeal time and the word 'unconscionable' needs to be properly defined. And appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. The hubris of the $cieno lawyers isn't a bug, it is a feature. A feature built in by the Niblet.
That's so right! Scieno lawyers hubris is a feature and correct interpretation for what Hubbard wanted of his lawyers! Bluster.
I'd be mentioning Xenu and body-thetans every chance I got talking to Scientology lawyers who are protecting the Hubbard Xenu's R6 implanted body-thetans (invisible souls) exorcism/soul-freeing scam. It's a scam, it's a snipe hunting scam where the believers have been long runway years-long-walked into their conditioned beliefs this exorcism "works".
Xenu and body-thetans to me, are the ultimate winner, in the big full game of paper, rock and scissors, with the L. Ron Hubbard cult of Scientology. We citizens ARE free to talk Xenu and body-thetans all we want, to whomever we wish, and it sticks it to Scientology because Hubbard disallows them even publicly discussing their Xenu and body-thetans spiritual betterment exorcism/soul-freeing. What a turned about problem Hubbard caused them, but free speech beats all those Hubbard driven lawyerly stiffling tactics.
Give Xenu, and eternal thanks Ze Moo (play on ZEE MOO, the Hubbard variation and alternative to ZEE NEW).
Since the only arbitration precedent is the Garcias’ fiasco, is it still a religious arbitration if they are making it up as they go along - and including additional abuse in the design?
This is absolutely stunning to me that you can be sent back to your abusers and let them decide whether or not you have been abused. Totally unacceptable. SMH
Comm Ev's do record the proceedings, every Comm Ev I ever was on. The "Secretary" person is responsible to get the recorder and do the recording, and the whole paperwork and the recording is submitted to AVC (paperpusher orthodoxy overseer boss for the region, for example AVC CLO WUS, or AVC IXU for the HGB building "upper middle management", or AVC Int for the Int Base).
Int Justice Chief has only a part, like they did in the sham Garcia's "Arbitration" due to them thinking that the Garcia's were "SPs" thus all communication to "SPs" had to be by the Int Justice Chief. I do think even the Garcia's "Arbitration" was submitted to AVC Int or AVC IXU, but more likely AVC Int or a designated person "holding" the AVC position.
The Comm Ev policies say record the proceedure, and all the paperwork and recordings go to AVC for approval, whichever AVC is over that Comm Ev.
Hubbard's maze of policies do cover in detail all sorts of requirements, and due to Hubbard not really thinking everything through, you have to apply multiple of his policies to situations to figure out the correct procedure in the end, since the persons being Comm Ev'ed are of a rank and region, and that makes the manning of the people who will sit on the Comm Ev difficult.
I once was given two Review Comm Evs. One for Alex Sibersky and one for Janis Grady Gillham's brother Peter Gillham Jnr. I was unable to get them manned, as it was too difficult for me to get the persons to even sit on the Comm Evs.
One thing a person, who still wishes to "play ball" with the Hubbard system/organizations, what they have the option to do, when official Scientology staffers don't dish up Comm Evs "standardly" is to complain via two other levels of complaint: a) Review Comm Ev and b) Board of Review.
I recommend, if you wish to play with the Hubbardites, on their terms, it means doing your A to E steps, a horrible option, but it you do them, and THEN request your Review Comm Ev. If that takes too long, which it will, because the manning of Comm Evs on former "SPs" is horrendously ridiculously hard doing the manning of those Review Comm Evs, and then watch as the Hubbard rules get violated, one way or another. THEN do the final option, which has to work, "Board of Review" which allows three loopholes to have your whole Comm Ev or your complained about justice punishment totally reversed.
I've thrown away my Hubbard ethics materials, for the umpteenth time, I buy, hold only, and then toss the Hubbard policy rules writings, over and over, like an addict to the durned Hubbard maze or regulations, because I had become as good or better than an Int Justice Chief level understanding of them all. But they are tediously unfair, but they do have loopholes.
Scientology will wait for the complaining person to show signs of SP acts, and then cut you off.
Once you demonstrate SP actions, they have the Hubbard option to then NOT give you the rights to their rules.
You can beat them at their rules, ONLY if you don't do SP actions which they can use against you.
All this said, likely then, Valerie can NEVER win in complaining against them while they violate their own Comm Ev/Arbitration rules, which they are doing, on the biggest point of swiftnes.
Hubbard said justice actions, including Comm Evs, are swift.
So even though they are violating their "swiftness" rules from Hubbard regarding Valerie, the fact she is committing SP acts in real time, in their minds, they have the option to not give her one iota of rightness to her or to her attorney Graham Berry's valid complaints.
Moral:
a) Never join Scientology, and never sign their legal docs
b) If you suffer through all the horrendous interaction of your punishment/judgements from Scientology, like Valerie, then write a book about it. I'll buy any ex member book, and read them, they all prove how horrendously unfair and unbalanced official Scientology who follow L. Ron Hubbard's cult regulations are.
NEVER join Scientology, it will punish you undoubtedly.
Just know since you never joined Scientology, you spared yourself finding out your human body is full of invisible souls whom the ancient bad guy space leader Xenu mass murdered the humanoids those souls used to inhabit, and Xenu also mass implanted very bad, the "R6 implants", ideas into the minds of those now dead and invisible souls that infest your human body today.
Scientology has secret five extensive steps of exorcism/soul-freeing, to supposedly free those invisible souls that infest your human body today, called OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. The exorcism steps they cannot talk about.
So if anyone wishing to stick Scientology with their predicament which L. Ron Hubbard left them stuck with, just talk to the Scientologists about the Xenu body-thetans (the invisible souls) which infest all humans and require the OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 five levels of exorcism/soul-freeing.
Scientology is just a horribly warped operation, that is messed up because L. Ron Hubbard the founder of the operation was messed up, and he left all the official Scientologists with a maze of regulations to self punish themselves and attempt to make life difficult for ex's who attack or complain about the Hubbard Scientology cult mess.
Bring up Xenu and body-thetans (the invisible souls) every time you can with Scientologists, and that shuts them up and they retreat. And this is Hubbard's cult indoctrination self-punishing rules which you are seeing before your eyes when the Scientologists retreat from mention of Xenu and body-thetans. They can't even repeat the words Xenu and body-thetans, Hubbard made that taboo for them to even bring up what you are saying to them.
Give Scientologists their Hubbard Achilles Heal: a) Xenu b) body-thetans (the invisible souls which supposedly infest all us humans)
The only ultimate justice is give them their own Hubbard problem, Xenu and body-thetans. Those words cut right into the Hubbard exorcism/soul-freeing scam, and they can't do anything about that.
I will absolutely guarantee that Scientology has at least an audio recording of the proceedings.
Why?
First, Dave has no trust to the point of terror. (a Hubbard quote twisted for this comment, long term Scientologists will get the joke). He will at least be getting a very detailed report of the proceedings so he can micromanage them to the nth degree. That's just how he rolls.
Second, the only Hubbard policy that remotely relates to these circus acts are the Committee of Evidence (Comm Ev) rules. Which definitely and explicitly call for a cassette tape recording. I have been under a few Comm Evs. There was always a recording.
Third, the point is to break Valerie. Why do it if you can't use the recordings for a good laugh over a Macallan's and bop with your Assistant?
A judge with some instinct for real justice would probably subpoena Scientology for the records. How else can she rule on the validity of the procedure? But the judges don't want to deal with it, out of sight out of mind. Pardon me while I go in the bathroom to express my true opinion.
Yes, there is always a recording.
If not, how the heck can one do a Board of Review? .. or has that also been hacked by DM - not that it was fair to begin with but there was always a recording.
Even so (with a recording) there is nothing fair or just about scientology justice. Even if it was done exactly as the policy states, they are not fair.
It’s impossible for a person to stick up for himself after being run into the ground by all their peers and is only allowed to speak to his counselor - wait … not even that. Counseling is suspended during justice proceedings.
We can all see why this goes on. Who has a will to sue and expose after the abuse? It takes years to repair and by then it’s simply not worth it.
Beings Val is now out of the SO she does have support. Somehow we have to all do what we can to correct this.
Thanks for telling it like it is Techie.
The judge putting off any input into the delay and complications of the Arbitration, likely also is due to her load of cases.
Things have to be presented to judges clearly, so they show the unbalanced unfairness.
Scientology's arbitration is unfair, it just needs simply laying out how that is so.
When the time comes if this Arbitration drags out for years, even so, that will make for an excellent book showing how awful Scientology's system is.
If there is even another reason needed, there isn't, NOT to join Scientology, then the Arbitration example with Valerie's case, will be another great lesson NEVER to join Scientology, and quit immediately when you realize this. And NEVER NEVER EVER sign a Scientology "legal" waiver or "release" or any type of document you have to read and sign which you give up your rights in any way.
Any "religion" that makes you sign legal docs to be on their staff or do the Scientology spiritual services, that is NO religion to do that with.
I repeatedly say, if you wish to see what the Scientology quackery is all about, then just go on the internet, find out how to find the online three volumes:
a) 1991 Subject Volume 3, of the red volumes
b) 1991 Subject Volume 4, of the red volumes
c) The O.T. Levels Volume
all on the internet, skim over them, to see what the L. Ron Hubbard spiritual quackery is all about.
And never join official Scientology, ever. Because official Scientology is stuck with the full load of the maze of L. Ron Hubbard's regulations, which will punish you every which way and backwards, including when you quit.
Just never ever do official Scientology.
The internet has all the key Scientology spiritual false claims, so read it all free, and never do Scientology.
Chuck Beatty
1975 to 2003, cult bureaucrats training department mostly in my wasted 27 years in the Scientology cult Sea Org mess
It is appeal time and the word 'unconscionable' needs to be properly defined. And appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. The hubris of the $cieno lawyers isn't a bug, it is a feature. A feature built in by the Niblet.
That's so right! Scieno lawyers hubris is a feature and correct interpretation for what Hubbard wanted of his lawyers! Bluster.
I'd be mentioning Xenu and body-thetans every chance I got talking to Scientology lawyers who are protecting the Hubbard Xenu's R6 implanted body-thetans (invisible souls) exorcism/soul-freeing scam. It's a scam, it's a snipe hunting scam where the believers have been long runway years-long-walked into their conditioned beliefs this exorcism "works".
Xenu and body-thetans to me, are the ultimate winner, in the big full game of paper, rock and scissors, with the L. Ron Hubbard cult of Scientology. We citizens ARE free to talk Xenu and body-thetans all we want, to whomever we wish, and it sticks it to Scientology because Hubbard disallows them even publicly discussing their Xenu and body-thetans spiritual betterment exorcism/soul-freeing. What a turned about problem Hubbard caused them, but free speech beats all those Hubbard driven lawyerly stiffling tactics.
Give Xenu, and eternal thanks Ze Moo (play on ZEE MOO, the Hubbard variation and alternative to ZEE NEW).
Since the only arbitration precedent is the Garcias’ fiasco, is it still a religious arbitration if they are making it up as they go along - and including additional abuse in the design?
How can they say the statements Graham Berry puts forth are demonstrably false if they have nothing to back that up?
I am not a lawyer, but for at least a portion of Berry's report I believe Firman needs to word clear the legal definition of "hearsay".
This is absolutely stunning to me that you can be sent back to your abusers and let them decide whether or not you have been abused. Totally unacceptable. SMH
Comm Ev's do record the proceedings, every Comm Ev I ever was on. The "Secretary" person is responsible to get the recorder and do the recording, and the whole paperwork and the recording is submitted to AVC (paperpusher orthodoxy overseer boss for the region, for example AVC CLO WUS, or AVC IXU for the HGB building "upper middle management", or AVC Int for the Int Base).
Int Justice Chief has only a part, like they did in the sham Garcia's "Arbitration" due to them thinking that the Garcia's were "SPs" thus all communication to "SPs" had to be by the Int Justice Chief. I do think even the Garcia's "Arbitration" was submitted to AVC Int or AVC IXU, but more likely AVC Int or a designated person "holding" the AVC position.
The Comm Ev policies say record the proceedure, and all the paperwork and recordings go to AVC for approval, whichever AVC is over that Comm Ev.
Hubbard's maze of policies do cover in detail all sorts of requirements, and due to Hubbard not really thinking everything through, you have to apply multiple of his policies to situations to figure out the correct procedure in the end, since the persons being Comm Ev'ed are of a rank and region, and that makes the manning of the people who will sit on the Comm Ev difficult.
I once was given two Review Comm Evs. One for Alex Sibersky and one for Janis Grady Gillham's brother Peter Gillham Jnr. I was unable to get them manned, as it was too difficult for me to get the persons to even sit on the Comm Evs.
One thing a person, who still wishes to "play ball" with the Hubbard system/organizations, what they have the option to do, when official Scientology staffers don't dish up Comm Evs "standardly" is to complain via two other levels of complaint: a) Review Comm Ev and b) Board of Review.
I recommend, if you wish to play with the Hubbardites, on their terms, it means doing your A to E steps, a horrible option, but it you do them, and THEN request your Review Comm Ev. If that takes too long, which it will, because the manning of Comm Evs on former "SPs" is horrendously ridiculously hard doing the manning of those Review Comm Evs, and then watch as the Hubbard rules get violated, one way or another. THEN do the final option, which has to work, "Board of Review" which allows three loopholes to have your whole Comm Ev or your complained about justice punishment totally reversed.
I've thrown away my Hubbard ethics materials, for the umpteenth time, I buy, hold only, and then toss the Hubbard policy rules writings, over and over, like an addict to the durned Hubbard maze or regulations, because I had become as good or better than an Int Justice Chief level understanding of them all. But they are tediously unfair, but they do have loopholes.
Scientology will wait for the complaining person to show signs of SP acts, and then cut you off.
Once you demonstrate SP actions, they have the Hubbard option to then NOT give you the rights to their rules.
You can beat them at their rules, ONLY if you don't do SP actions which they can use against you.
All this said, likely then, Valerie can NEVER win in complaining against them while they violate their own Comm Ev/Arbitration rules, which they are doing, on the biggest point of swiftnes.
Hubbard said justice actions, including Comm Evs, are swift.
So even though they are violating their "swiftness" rules from Hubbard regarding Valerie, the fact she is committing SP acts in real time, in their minds, they have the option to not give her one iota of rightness to her or to her attorney Graham Berry's valid complaints.
Moral:
a) Never join Scientology, and never sign their legal docs
b) If you suffer through all the horrendous interaction of your punishment/judgements from Scientology, like Valerie, then write a book about it. I'll buy any ex member book, and read them, they all prove how horrendously unfair and unbalanced official Scientology who follow L. Ron Hubbard's cult regulations are.
NEVER join Scientology, it will punish you undoubtedly.
Just know since you never joined Scientology, you spared yourself finding out your human body is full of invisible souls whom the ancient bad guy space leader Xenu mass murdered the humanoids those souls used to inhabit, and Xenu also mass implanted very bad, the "R6 implants", ideas into the minds of those now dead and invisible souls that infest your human body today.
Scientology has secret five extensive steps of exorcism/soul-freeing, to supposedly free those invisible souls that infest your human body today, called OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. The exorcism steps they cannot talk about.
So if anyone wishing to stick Scientology with their predicament which L. Ron Hubbard left them stuck with, just talk to the Scientologists about the Xenu body-thetans (the invisible souls) which infest all humans and require the OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 five levels of exorcism/soul-freeing.
Scientology is just a horribly warped operation, that is messed up because L. Ron Hubbard the founder of the operation was messed up, and he left all the official Scientologists with a maze of regulations to self punish themselves and attempt to make life difficult for ex's who attack or complain about the Hubbard Scientology cult mess.
Bring up Xenu and body-thetans (the invisible souls) every time you can with Scientologists, and that shuts them up and they retreat. And this is Hubbard's cult indoctrination self-punishing rules which you are seeing before your eyes when the Scientologists retreat from mention of Xenu and body-thetans. They can't even repeat the words Xenu and body-thetans, Hubbard made that taboo for them to even bring up what you are saying to them.
Give Scientologists their Hubbard Achilles Heal: a) Xenu b) body-thetans (the invisible souls which supposedly infest all us humans)
The only ultimate justice is give them their own Hubbard problem, Xenu and body-thetans. Those words cut right into the Hubbard exorcism/soul-freeing scam, and they can't do anything about that.
great reply !